To love the lovely lovely c-section bliss

[mummyanonymous]

Natural labour: bad
Major abdominal surgery: good

I don't think you can presume anything really when it comes to birth. I have in the past dealt with pain pretty well, had a year which included over 100 blood tests and having to have cannulas inserted everyday for several weeks, and have spent a lot of time in hospitals. Dd1's birth was 3 days long with gas and air, ending in episiotomy, ventouse and 3rd degree tear. Dd2 was induced, passed out, 2nd degree tear. I felt as though I had handled it all pretty well, but I was bowled over by how horrendous my elcs with ds was, not so much the pain, but the nausea, shaking, feeling of being out of it, losing tons of blood and ds being taken away to scbu before i could cuddle him, all of these things were awful and have/are taking a long time to get over. Nothing to do with pain thresholds, everything to do with the unpredictablity of birth and life in general.

And?

Sorry, OrmIrian was that to me or op? I was responding to Ample's post about pain thresholds, sorry if it was a bit of a waffly post.

I was bouncing around with all the force of a Space Hopper 26 hours after DS was born. I coped well with the pain and everyone I ran into commented on how healthy I looked, how happy I seemed and whether I was overdoing it.

My sex life with DP got back on track quite quickly, I healed up nicely, had no complications and even though DP tried to confine me to the bed, I was having none of it. It was the happiest and the least uncomfortable I'd felt in 5 months!

C-Section again please. Nice and simple. I would have had one sooner if not for my bloody midwife trying to convince all and sundry against it!

No hazey, not to you. To the OP. Sorry!

I just don't quite see what the thread is about if not to wind people up. Unless she's still high on some sort of painkiller...

FWIW I had 3 'easy' VBs. So what?

Had one CS and decided no more kids for me! 19 months on my scar seeps on places occasionally.

I have had 2 natural, 1 section. Natural everytime.

Ample - Sorry I think the high pain threshold thing is rubbish. After an episiotomy and a tear that joined my front to back as it were, my stitches hadn't healed after six months So i ended up haveing to have an operation to redo it all, which resolved all the problems... So technically I now have a designer vagina preens

Seriously I don't really think anybody's pain threshold could find that comfortable.

I was lucky my elcs was beautiful, however I did still require blood transfusions. I do know of people that have had horrendous cs's.

phew! not that I'm paranoid or anything!

After my first (emergency) section I was gutted that I didnt have a 'natural' delivery. I found the section quite harrowing, although not painful.

Second section (planned for health reasons) was wonderful. Totally, totally blissful. It was the best day of my life. I ended up on a ward with three women who had sustained 'birth injuries' including a woman with a fourth degree tear
and two women who had huge episiotomies (one woman had a shoulder dystocia scenario). I was the only one up and about and in good spirits! And I remember DH wincing as the doctor explained to one woman that she would need corrective surgery on her back passage

I think natural birth, when it is uncomplicated, is probably preferable to major surgery. But I would have a section every time over a fourth degree tear .

"I think natural birth, when it is uncomplicated, is probably preferable to major surgery."

I've had a birth involving forceps and one involving a shoulder dystocia with an 11lb baby. I'd still rather have gone through those labours than had a completely straightforward planned c/s.

For some of us the experience of labour is meaningful in a way that makes it about more than just weighing up and comparing degrees of pain and injury.

But I appreciate that for other people it's not.

I anticipate the day babies are gestated and born from bottles, AKA 'Brave New World'. I think the same arguments will be used against normal pregnancy as are now being used when talking about c-section vs vaginal birth.

I believe my own childbirth experience was 100% as meaningful as anyone else's, no matter how they had their child.

Not read the whole thread but personally I would go for a vaginal birth anytime given the choice even after a pretty bad experience having Ds. I am all for cs when needed and there is no disputing they are lifesavers but I don't understand why people would want one unless medically necessary.

Hell - becoming a mother and meeting your new baby is equally meaningful for all of us.

But I went through a lot of pain, uncertainty and personal effort to bring my babies safely into this world, and that means something to me.

Vaginal birth requires hard work on the mothers part. For me this is the crux of the difference between the two experiences: giving birth vaginally is something you do. C/S is something that's done to you. That's why - just speaking for myself - I wanted a vaginal birth. I wanted to conceive my babies myself, birth my babies myself, and feed them on my own milk. Self sufficiency in these things (and others) is important to me.

Obviously if I couldn't have conceived/birthed/fed babies naturally I would have been PROFOUNDLY grateful for IVF, CS and modern formula - because creating, safely birthing and nurturing a child is the reason we're all in this in the first place.

shagmund freud

I laboured for hours before my first emergency section, so I did 'work hard'. As do the vast majority of women who have emergency sections .

And forcep deliveries or ventouse or episiotomies are something that are 'done to you', too. SO that argument is meaningless, imo, and more than a little naive.

I had to have both my sections for medical reasons, but I do understand why some women would elect for a section, just as I understand why some women want to give birth in water at home with no drugs. It doesnt tale a huge leap of imagination or compassion or empathy, really. Not for me, anyway.

Just carrying a baby is practically torture for me Shagmund, i consider my pregnancies very hard work themselves, i am finding you ever so increasingly offensive.
I would rather you be honest and say what you really think of mums who choose a section over VB than come on here and declare that sections are not hard work.
You have already said that you have a blissful VB and are now saying it was hard work, well surgery is hard work aswell, it was also for me an enjoyable experience.
You clearly feel superior by the fact your pushed your baby out of your vagina, do you want a medal?

"I laboured for hours before my first emergency section, so I did 'work hard'. As do the vast majority of women who have emergency sections "

Yes - no doubt of that.

"And forcep deliveries or ventouse or episiotomies are something that are 'done to you', too.

I've had a forceps delivery, and believe me - I still had to work very hard to push my baby out.

"well surgery is hard work aswell"

In what sense?

"it was also for me an enjoyable experience."

Good!

I don't think it would have been for me though. As I said - I've experienced gynaecological surgery under regional anaesthesia and can't say there was any pleasure in it. But as you say, each to their own.

"You clearly feel superior by the fact your pushed your baby out of your vagina"

As I said, going through a tough labour DOES give some a strong feeling of self-sufficiency and a sense of pride in their ability to weather a storm. Is there something wrong about feeling this way?

"do you want a medal?" - Well, not an actual one.

No there is nothing wrong with feeling like you have accomplished something by giving birth vaginally, i am happy that you feel so good about your deliveries.

"But I went through a lot of pain, uncertainty and personal effort to bring my babies safely into this world, and that means something to me."

Here you are suggesting that anyone who has had a section hasn't suffered these same problems.

Which is just wrong, i think you will find that anyone delivering in any method including sections experience some sort of pain, definatly uncertainty, increasingly so as sections have sligtly higher maternal mortality rates.
Personal effort, well i suffered for 7 months carrying and protecting my child by denying myself drugs and treatment that was very important to my health, physically, and mentally, which even compared to a long drawn out labour lasting a few days is considerably bigger time frame of endurance.

I frankly do not care how a baby comes into the world, so long as they are healthy, and that the method worked out well for the mother.

I do not feel superior for having the birth i wanted, i feel happy that i had the outcome i did, and i feel sad that some women still feel that women who choose sections are weak.
We all have different priorities, and in the same way you would always want a VB, i would always want a section, i can't ever see myself wanting to experience that, but i certainly do not judge women who choose a VB, why on earth would i?

I had a drug free natural birth that resulted in 4th degree tear, large blood loss and 4 student doctors taking it in turns testing new stitches on my poor foof. Compared to that my c sections were partly a relief. They healed faster. Got awful nerve pain from no. 2 though caused by the epidural bruising... lasted several months and had me on a cocktail of opiates and muscle relaxants which wasn't great for baby.

Both ways have their advantages...

My CS was just a relief tbh. It wasn't stressful and it wasn't painful, and on the whole I recovered very well afterwards, although was pretty badly anaemic due to blood loss. But pain wise it wasn't too bad.

The relief was mainly down to the fact that I had gone through 50 hours of a failed induction beforehand. That was painful, incredibly so. Even after the epidural I still had some pain. And it was tiring, and depressing as I got nowhere. So, the cs, compared to that but, was a walk in the park I guess.

I was also just glad to have a healthy baby at the end of it all.

Never ever felt I hadn't done it right though. Don't get the idea that being able to give birth "naturally" is some big thing to achieve - if nature doesn't go your way, then that's it, nothing you can do about it. Certainly nothing to do with failing.

Mind you - that hasn't taken into account that 2 years later I suffered infertility due to Asherman's Syndrome - where I had many adhesions sticking my uterus together, result in me needing two ops under GA, months of high dose hormones, far two many internal scans to name lots of intense pain before the ops (about 5 years worth of cyclical pain) and still, some 9y after DD wa sborn, no second child.

So long term my CS wasn't a great experience, but short term is was.

3 vaginal births including two home births, one without pain relief as there wasn't really time, then crash CS under GA. Give me the CS any day. No pain, either pre or post operatively (like someone else downthread, my DD was firmly stuck due to cord entanglement and after 4 days of ruptured membranes also had an infection, then reacted rather badly to the induction).

Disclaimer: If I'd had crash CS for my first rather than 4th I would almost certainly feel very very differently about having the CS in the first place (although I was still amazingly lucky not to have any problems from the CS). The only part of my 4th labour I regret is not getting to hold her at birth, those amazing first few moments after birth getting to know each were spent with her being encouraged to breathe by medical staff and me out cold.

shagmund. you say the labour was tough. that's your subjective opinion. one woman's 'tough' is another's walk in the path.

birth shouldn't be focused on the mother's perceived toughness. it should be focused in getting the baby out. if you want to be a labour-pain athlete, go right ahead. if you think pain experienced in labour is crucial in kickstarting the right sort of mothering, then knock yourself out.

lots of us have gone through enormous personal sacrifice (infertility perhaps, many surgeries, denying oneself drugs while pregnant) pain -- both acute, if occuring in labour, and chronic, say, with hyperemesis, spd, etc, and then the lifetime's travails of motherhood.

a few hours of pushing, with either help or otherwise, or else a section, possibly coming after hours of pushing, are a drop in the ocean when you look at what it takes to get pregnant, nurture that baby inside you and then bring them up.

vaginas are great, not denying that, but there's no special god living in there bestowing his riches on those babies passing by!

But I went through a lot of pain, uncertainty and personal effort to bring my babies safely into this world, and that means something to me.

Yup, me too. You come across as though you feel YOU went through a lot more to have your child than a person getting a section, even if that person chose a section, when in reality, you can't tell, mentally or physically, what any other woman is going through. I have never for a minute considered that a woman who did what you did had a better birth experience than me and also I don't admire a woman who did what you did more than I do myself. If it's some imaginary race you're competing in, you're the only competitor!