To round up rightwingers and shoot them?

[Hullygully]

I am so bored and frustrated with politely pointing out why rightwingers are wrong about everything.

If I have to read one more thread about why someone with mental health issues shouldn't have had children, or why someone made homeless should have managed better, or why the benefits cap is a good thing because Fuck the Poor, I will get out my gun and raze the boards of MN.

STOP IGNORING THE FACTS YOU RIGHTWING IGNORAMUSES AND CLIMB DOWN OUT OF YOUR OWN NARROW ARSES TO THE WORLD THAT MOST PEOPLE STRUGGLE ALONG IN.

Oh, and you're all cunts BTW.

The cuts ARE killing people; here

30+ people dying having been refused disabilty or ESA before their claim is reassessed; some within days.

Benefits advisors being trained to deal with suicide attempts.
Disability boards awash with people considering suicide.

The potential cycle goes like this:

Person claiming is caring for someone on MR Care and is told they have to work but they cannot leave cared for loved one. If they leave cared for loved one, cared for loved one may well be severe risk to themselves* ; if they do not, they can be removed from all state income for amximum three months period.

Person has been wrongly refused ESa or DLA (Reporrtedly at least half of cases); person is appelalng but in meantime is assessed as being fit for work but can't, appeals process currently backlogged so taking +++ time, they can have all their benefits stopped....

then tehre's the legal aid being withdrawn from benefit claims so disbaled people will not be able to get an advocate to fight their case....

Deaths are hapenning and will in all likelihood increase

The evidence is right here on this thread. People here, on this thread are hurting, struggling, POOR because shit has happened in their lives - its so easy to ignore that though and just to keep banging on about the scroungers and bankruptcy.

It's bullshit. This country is nowhere NEAR bankruptcy, but the government need to keep the rich as rich as possible and it's easier to make sure that happens when the masses are fighting among themselves.

X post peachy-don't ever think you shouldnt have had your kids. You sound like a brilliant mum.

valar - tax loopholes are closed all the time. It happens every year. Perhaps it should happen more. But you are wrong to imply that no action is taken on this.

No the minimum wage did not cause unemployment. But raising the minimum wage to a level were people did not need to claim income related benefits would be very expensive for employers. I don't know if it would create more unemployment, although I fear it would. But I don't think the two are strictly comparable.

Northernwreck- When have we taken up US tax policy? The new Government has put taxes up since coming into office and our tax rates are much higher than those in the United States. Similarly UK welfare spending as a % of GDP is much higher then in the US so neither of what you claim is true.

Dharma- If Labour fiscal policy had been pursued by the coalition then we would be on the road to national bankruptcy as we would continue to run a structural budget deficit and that would eventually end in tears when we experienced difficulties on the bond market.

My friend believes her Autistic aunt was killed by the cuts. She was sent home from hospital recently as they couldn't cope with her. If there were more staff, of the specialist kind, or if her carer was allowed to stay 24hrs she would have been okay there. Instead they refused to readmit until it was much too late.

Lesley- the issue with that is the definition of severely disabled; it used to mean anyone on HR or MR care- anyone needing a carer basically.

It now means only HR Care, and carers caring for someone on MR will be require3d to work or do workfare from 2013.

No word yet on who will look after the cared for person however....

And of course the ONLY difference between MR DLA and HR DLA is the need for night care for a certain number of minutes; otherwise severity can be exactly the same.

Thank you NW

And yes TeWi; somewhat annoying then as someone qualified in ASD field I cannot find work to even consider from Summer!

northernwreck - Of course someone well off being affected is not going to be as severely affected as someone on a lower income.

But I know lots of people with a household income of between 40-60k who are being affected by the current state of the economy. Lots of people being made redundant, having hours cut, or salary cuts. And many more afraid they will lose their jobs and feeling very insecure.

And if you have a mortgage you don't get any financial help for 9 months. Nearly everyone I know would have lost their house by thsi stage.
This is affecting the middle class as well as the very poor - although not in the same way.

I was really shocked, I have been trying to keep in the loop but I didn't realise that things had got that bad. Anyway I think there are lawyers involved so I won't say anything else.

But really, this does not save money. Cuts like this hurt people and cost more. What is the point?

Everyone seems to be skirting that question too, how much does welfare reform (including the new computer system) cost to implement in a time of austerity? I would lay large sums of money on the answer being more than it shaves off the walfare bill...

Peachy they are encouraged and incentivised to and have been since RTB was introduced. Why wasn't RTB removed whilst NL were in power - because the public would have been up in arms.

Just think the blame cannot be laid at this and previous governments feet alone - people need to take responsibility for their actions, and for their old and young - thing is Governments have legislated this caring side of society out of people - world would be a better place if we judged less and helped others more - not because we have to but because we want to, because we respect our old and recognise that our young are our future and we have to invest time and love and care and respect in them.

Being rich or poor doesn't make you a good or bad person - we all want the best for our families - don't forget that and whilst things are hard and far from perfect for many we are lucky to live in a society that does provide some support for its vulnerable members and where people can suggest shooting people with opposing political views without fear if being shot themselves

peanutbutter - Basically right wing is the conservatives/tories and left wing is labour. Although some will say labour is right wing as well and left wing is socialism.

peachy - Sorry I wasn't talking about the government definition of severely disabled. I just think the level of support to the severely disabled e.g. those who would need to be in an institution of they didn't have a carer, is woefully inadequate.

Llanb. That sounds very contrary to the advice being given WRT to HB. It's all been 'Move then! If you can't afford the rent in your community' How does that sit with taking care of our elder members of our family etc?

Personal responsibility for your old and young is all well and good when you have plenty of money to help, not so easy when the cuts which are happening are slicing ever further through communities and forcing even more familial separation.

My autistic auntie was left without benefits for 9 months when they rejected her then incapacity benefit claim, insisting that she was fit for work. If it hadn't been for her family she would have quietly starved to death in her own home. After 9 months they overturned the decision at a tribunal and actually recommended that she be awarded middle-rate DLA. What if she had no family?

karetta-the current govnmt are ideologically in favour of the most right wing of US policies.
They are attempting to privatise the NHS by stealth (opposed by doctors and nursing unions) cutting benefits (which is now suddenly called "welfare") brought in workfare and university fees.

I saw a twat on one of the politcal shows (forget who) saying that if people can't afford where they live they should move.

So that means, then, no people who earn under the average wage will have to leave London, since for me to rent a 2 bed flat there would be at least £1000 a month, which I could not pay as a single person on a full time wage working at, say, Boots.

So I am supposed to move somewhere cheaper. But at the same time move where the work is?

If the govmnt acheive their social cleansing policy there will be no-one left working in the shops, hospitals, schools,driving the buses or cleaning the streets. Because they will have had to fuck off to...where is cheaper in the South East??

Further up thread someone said "America happens"

Indeed it does.

We live in an area of extreme poverty, jobs lost and homes going back to the bank.

On Saturday, we saw a woman (bearing in mind it is well bellow freezing here) standing at the traffic lights ...begging :(

On her cardboard sign it read: PLEASE HELP MY FAMILY.

These are people who are/were just one step from poverty , just one They don't even live on the streets.They have probably lost their un-employment, it has a limit here.Think about that. They had nowhere to get food.Without demeaning themselves at lines of drivers coming out of the store, they would starve.

I think those that take a harsh view of Governmental help/benefits need a strong reality check.

There will always be those that abuse the 'system'.It should not be 'fixed' so that innocents end up paying the price.

I had to leave a charity shop today , i was in absolute tucks of laughter listening to the nice 'charitable' volunteer going into a DM meltdown about the benefit cap, Romanians, single parents and bizzarely people trying to sell him stuff on the beach in Kenya , apparently they are very dirty and don't pick up their litter

northernwreck - Sorry but I don't think your example is a good one for the point you are trying to make. A single person in London in an average wage has not been able to afford to rent privately a 2 bed flat in at least the last 30 years. When I lived in London 20-30 years ago as a single person I wasn't entitled to housing benefit. I lived in rooms in shared houses - sharing with teachers, lawyers and the like none of who could afford even a 1 bedroom flat as a single person. This is why I and others I spoke to moved out of London.

And in London there is still a lot of social housing. So the poorest paid will have to be living in social housing - or wages will have to go up.

Actually after posting on the other thread, I had a bit of play with Entitledto. I still stand by my thought that average wage should be a fair amount for a totally non-working family.

BUT, I have to admit I had NO idea and was totally at how much benefit a family in London gets when on that very wage!!!! A family with 3 kids and one earner on that wage in 3 bed private rented accommodation is apparently entitled to £250 a week in Tax Credits/HB!!!! The world has gone fecking mad! How the hell did everyone become so reliant on top up benefits?

I had a salary similar to that in the UK and could have managed to pay the mortgage and ft childcare (for one child) where I lived (in the SE) on that. I know that food/fuel has become more expensive. But SHIT! I have learned something today!

I've read this whole thread with interest.

I am a Tory voter, but give a decent proportion of my salary to various charities, (the only UK one being the NSPCC).

I work in a sink-estate school and see a lot of children living in relative poverty. Sadly, many of the children have to live in poverty through the choices their parents make. Mostly, these parents are the "feckless" type, several kids to several different men, never worked, no intention of doing so.

When I've mentioned this on other threads I've been told that this sort of person is the exception, why should people in genuine hardship suffer just because of a few bad eggs? But where I am, there aren't just a few, sadly.

It is hard for me to object to the £26K benefit cap, when I see lots of people smoking / drinking / gambling it away every day, while their children wear dirty clothes and rely on FSM for a decent meal, and their teachers for a bit of stimulation. Should we keep on throwing money at people like that, when even if they received £100K a year, none of it would be spent on their children?

I voted for Tony Blair in 1997 - if only he had been the man we all hoped he was. I know that the chasm between the left and right cannot be bridged, but I don't think you lefties are all Mao Tse-Tung, just as I am not Mussolini.

but lesley-families are now being forced to move due to the housing benefit cuts.
And rents in London are getting more and more insane, not going down, as predicted.
As for social housing-most of the good social housing has long since been sold. It is impossible to get into any socail housing, expecially in London, unless you are being beaten up by your partner, disabled, mentally ill or have some other dire need.
Ordinary people do not have enoug points to get council housing.

And portofino-the majority of that £250 will be going to the landlord, not the recipient of the benefit.
The cost of housing has massively gone up. I don't know when you bought your house, but if I had bought a house in 1999, which I could have done on a lowish salary, I would be fine now.
I didn't and now am paying extorionate rent instead.

Where's Hully?

HULLY FOR PRIME MINISTER!

(I expect she's re-loading)