To think that the West is seriously fucked up on the bosom front?

[Hullygully]

Bags of poison sewn into our infant feeding parts.

How fucked up is that?

The problem is that as females we are made to feel more and more that we are what we look like, and not much more.
Like, anything else we might be is a bonus, whereas really, we are our inner characters, our jobs, our roles as mothers and sisters and daughters, and wives, our beleifs and our talents.
If we are pretty to look at, thats the bonus.

I understand what yellowraincoat is saying about Brigette Bardot but just want to bring up a few things.
Yes she was very beautiful and that is natures way of attracting a mate. Growing older I think is a process of letting go and accepting getting old we have found our mates and have our offspring. Young women should not have to compete with older women to they should be able to be the ones to attract the young men.
I think women who can't accept what stage of life they are in are the ones that cling to their youth and have botox ect. Men who can't accept it run off with younger women if they can (not too bald, fat or poor!)
I also think prettier women find it harder to age.
Brigette Bardot I think did not wear any sunscreen and she was out doors on the med a lot. My nan still looked good smooth skin and she had good bone structure when she was 90. She cared about how she looked always wore a hat in the sun,wore makeup and wore nivea or ponds cold creme. She never had any surgery though so it is possible to still be older and look nice. Just not artificially young looking. Sorry for deviating

The implants go underneath the breast tissue so if anything, lumps can be felt more easily.

LOL @ shit in the street. I see what you mean - I know I am not as easily influenced as some people though.

Good point Kerstina. I spose part of the problem is that older guys DO run off with younger women - you don't see it the other way round as much.

I resolve that when I am 60 I shall take a younger lover to restore the balance.

How about surgery to remove all curves, and waxing to remove all hair, so that we can all look about 8 years old again? It is hard when the whole lot starts to sag and wrinkle but we're not going to last any longer looking like a plastic peach. We're not going to be any better at what we do or what we think. When I had my operation, I was told in no uncertain terms that it was a long operation, that it was dangerous, that there were possible serious complications... Without an operation I could have died anyway, so it was a matter of measuring the risks versus benefits. I would not have chosen to be carved up unconcious for 9 hours, and never to be able to play tennis professionally, ever.

Agree with every word of that Northernwreck.

We do need vanity to a certain extent though. Otherwise, we would end up wearing those tins of beans someone mentioned as shoes. I don't know if ultimately this debate is about where the individual draws the line on how far they chose to go with it. Is the choice to have, and the revulsion to, breast implants any different from the choice to have nipple piercings or wear ludicrously expensive lipstick? Is it just that large or perky breasts have swum to the top of the pile of available amendments due to our natural desire for them?

Well, it is a natural human (and animal) instinct to preen, and to adorn ourselves.
It just can't be all we are is what I am thinking.
I know in myself (and I wear make-up, heels, the lot) that I am deeply, truly happiest when my work is going well, and my friendships are healthy, and I have a nice man in my life.
When I don't , that's when I obsess about my looks, ageing, whatever.
It's sort of a displacement activity.
I can't help thinking that the massive emphasis in the last 15 years or so on ultra "femininity" is a kind of distraction to stop women getting too confident or too in charge of their own selves.
Paranoid? me?

By the by kerstina-we havn't all found a mate! And I point blank refuse to lay off the young men ! (until they are actually running screaming from my clutches!)

Fair point Northernwreck
I have nightmares about loosing my teeth so I don't think I am finding the ageing process easy.(Dream interpretation) After BF my bust has been flatter than ever but I am not worried about that but could not think of anything worse than dentures so I guess we all have our insecurities. Still have all my own teeth at mo though !

There has been such an explosion in the media and in the population in the last fifteen years too, Northernwreck. I worried about my looks when I was growing up and I only had my school friends and few magazines to compare myself to. But if we're going to say is it a chicken and an egg thing, then I guess nice boobs were invented before Facebook.

We could definitely all do with a bit less anxiety about our appearances, that's for sure. Having so many images of people with things we don't have everywhere doesn't help. I don't even have to move to find a picture of women infinitely richer and more beautiful than me. I can look at them on my phone right now. The media is a beast on the loose.

But even having said all that, I would never ever throw my make up bag away. Hell no, not for anyone! I know other things should be more important to me but I don't care. I like looking nice and I don't want to give it up.

thanks *percepti

thanks perception

As a slightly older women without a partner and facing the dating scene I do find aging hrd. I am competting with a younger market. Not that I am even that old but there is a definate pressure to keep beautiful and young looking. I draw the line at surgery though; instead diet, fitness, clothes and a good moisteriser are a must and important at any age.

On some of the Jillian michaels dvds such as no more trouble zones she demosntrates some breast lifting exercises.

Breast lifting exercises do nothing once you'vel ost volume and got empty skin. You either put up with them or do as I did and have the loose skin cut away, the breast tissue lifted and implants inserted to restore you to the size you were pre kids.

You're old an awful lot longer than you're young. If you're lucky.

Society is obsessed with a very particular type of youth. It's vacuous and dull.

yy

I think plump breasts v definintely connected to the whole "stay young" thing.

I first understood the reality of how women are seen when I pushed my two dc down the road in their double buggy - and my own dh walked past me without seeing me.

Step away from youth and sexual availability and become "unseen."

It is this we need to fight.

I don't watch television and I suppose that must insulate me. the women I nkow are women in careers who earn a lot and have fun. I don't swim in the pool of women who do nothing but seek to look good so I don't really consort with women for whom looks are their big thing. There are a lot of women out there who genuinely do not fuss and spend a lot of time over their looks. I think I look very good whether I have make up on or not and people are paying a lot of money for my services and i could have no face and no legs and they would still be delighted with me. Ditto people I help for nothing and the love of the children etc etc.

Despite all that sometimes I play the game and I can and do look pretty good I think.#

I wouldn't ban breast surgery but I want us to retain freedom of speech to encourage girls to do something better morally and in terms of sexual politics with their time than have their chests cut open.

I wouldn't ban it either.

I would like it to be that the reaction to the idea of having a healthy breast sliced open and bags of silicone inserted, is an incredulous gasp and,

"What? Are you insane?"

Really, HullyGully? Where I live, the school gate is a notorious pick-up point. Neither women nor men lose their attractions when they have children...

I imagine it's different at the school gate. People are standing there and talking, and looking etc. This was in the street.

Plus the French are sex mad. We all know that.

'Everyone has a natural desire to conform. Otherwise we'd all just shit in the street and wear tins of beans for shoes.'

Genius.

I hope you considered the opticians first hully, before you decided to become the boss of everyone's tits.

Another self-congratulatory post from xenia.

I don't think it's true to say that as soon as you have children people don't notice you any more.

Florie you have a truly delightful way of expressing yourself.

It is a shame that your intellectual understanding simply doesn't match up to it.