To think that the West is seriously fucked up on the bosom front?

[Hullygully]

Bags of poison sewn into our infant feeding parts.

How fucked up is that?

Caring about your appearance doesn't have to be a consuming obsession. It can be a side project to the main goals and interests of your life. I'm perfectly happy and fulfilled, but I still wouldn't mind my old boobs back.

It's not a major thing. It's just a little flicker of disappointment when I get undressed for bed. I'd like full boobs again. I'd like to be able to take my bra off during sex and not worry about smacking myself in the armpit. I'd like fingers to not disappear into their folds.

If it's ok for me to want big boobs because I used to have them and I miss them, why is not ok for someone who imagines they might like having them? That's understandable, isn't it? It's not like wanting to have an antenna attached to your head with an extra eye on it. Ok, it is a big operation, but no one's waving a knife at your norks, so what's the big deal?

I've wanted a boob job for years... I'm very small chested :-(

In 2010 I got into competing in bodybuilding/bikini contests. It's very competitive and you have to get your body fat down to a very low % which invariably means you lose your chest... so they all have implants!!

I considered it but I do think there'd be something wrong with me getting them just so I don't stand out against the other big boobed ladies (they do balance your shape, especially if you're all hips and arse like I am) so I've decided I'd just rather not compete... the diet and training isn't the most healthiest anyway, very yo-yo with pre and post competition prep.

Anyway, I'd love to have a decent pair (they were small to begin with but after my son they basically vanished!) but I have recently discovered the WOW bra from Next... OMG, it's ace! I'd seriously recommend it, at £15 it's somewhat cheaper (not to mention more safe!) than surgery

I think the reasons why I am worried for my daughter growing up in a culture doing this is:

1. I don't why my daughter to have any kind of surgery at all, if she can possibly avoid it. Having never had any surgery myself, I see surgery as a very extreme thing that I can only understand consenting to if there was a vital clinical reason.

1. I would worry about her attitude to her own body. Your body is part of who you are; why would you want something foreign inserted in your chest. It would be as if she somehow considered her body not to be her, but to be some kind of presentation of her. I can't understand that mind/body division.

1. For this to be widely acceptable, there must be loads of people with this idea that their body isn't really them, that it is some thing to be moulded, even if the moulding of it carries risks to them. I worry about my daughter being in relationships with these people. How can they respond to people sensually when they have such an odd relationship with their own body?

'You care because society tells you that people are suppose to look a certain way and humans are mainly conformists.'

I do wish people wouldn't presume to know the ins and outs of how others think. I am actually not a conformist, according to psychological tests. If I knew I was never going to see another man again I would still have had a BA for me, and you have no right to tell me otherwise.

Thankfully people do have freedom of speech so they do have a right to tell others what is right or wrong. I am happy to live a in country which bans FMG which I accept is more extreme than cutting your chest open and putting silicone in so your breasts stick out more but even the latter is pretty weird and can live with a country which allows adults however misguided they are to spend their own money on pointless dangerous breast operations, presumably because they have so little else in their life they define themselves by their looks.

That's fine but I am others are free to piont out the error of the ways of those who do this kind of thing and encourage them to realise that playing ball like that panders to sexism and ensures their daughters have a harder time on this planet. These are political as much as personal decisions and should be seen in that context.

To answer someone further up the thread (as I have three girls), if they wanted to have the same procedure I would be supportive of it but would encourage them to be sure about it and research to get a good surgeon etc. I don't think I have the right to tell them what to do even if I disagreed with it.

You can guide them though. Mine might be guided to how to have a great career and rounded life with moral purpose and other parents can guide to 16th birthday present your chest will be cut open to make you look better and get a man. We live a country where we are free to pressure daughters in either direction.

Well Xenia, you seem to judge women entirely on how much they earn so what does that say about you? There are plenty of people who work as hard as high earners in lower paid jobs.

Yellowraincoat, I just don't like them. I hate the trend for the Prison Break type tattoo sleeves. I also loathe those earrings that stretch your lobe

Ok, so I have breast implants, would it surprise you I have travelled the world, am well read, have had a successful career, breastfed 2 x children for 4.5 years (with implants), love animals, masturbate occasionally (actually quite rarely these days) wear vests & slippers most of the year ? Am i fitting this stuck in the dark ages idea you all have of women who DARE empower themselves because their boobs forgot to grow ?

People have a right to state their opinions but that doesn't mean they know what goes on inside the heads of everyone else.

We can have a guess at what goes on inside people's heads. It's fascinating. I postulated some questions much higher up about why some of us fuss over this stuff and others don't so much and no one really gave me many answers.

I am not despite my views on women's careers etc against use of sexual capital at all. Read Hakim's book on it. However I think dangerous surgery is a step too far.

I am a libertarian and if people want to bring up girls to think their looks are all (which indeed may be the best route to being reasonably well off marrying someone who finds you pretty and will support you) then that's their choice just as thankfully we also a country which allows girls to be brought up to wear the burka and not leave a house without a man or girls as I am or girls who shave their head, wear flat shoes or enter a convent etc. Variety is the spice of life but I am free to put the feminist view against this type of operation.

Xenia, tbh, you're making a lot of assumptions about other women and at the same time feel the need to put other women down for choices they make. I wonder why that is? Do you have the same opinions of women who wear make up and do their hair nicely too?

You don't really sound like you like other women very much unless they conform to what, in your view, women should be like.

Breast Augmentations are not considered to be dangerous surgery. If they were I would never have had one. The medical team carry out a risk assessment before you can even sign the forms to give your consent which they grade accordingly. The PIP implants should never have been used in the first place.

I think dangerous surgery is a step too far.
The surgery Isn't dangerous, Most people choosing to undergo a bodily modification would have extensively looked into finding the best surgeon they can afford. There is a risk with anaesthesia and with some implants but there are plenty that are deemed safe.

I always found that women are a lot more critical of other women's appearances and everything to do with women generally, than men.
What maryz said along the lines off fitting in, is right for young girls I suppose, Not for adults though. If someone has a ba and its not obvious how can people say that Its making it more likely for other people to undergo these kinds of operations?

Obviously massive fake tits look gross, Most women choosing to have a ba won't be opting for a jordan style cleavage at all. You wouldn't know unless they said so how is this putting pressure on others?

"revolting boys" wtf?????

charming comment to half the population

because girls don't have sex with boys because they want to do they? surely not

no it's those "revolting" boys that make them do it

what planet are you on

I can understand why some women just can't understand why women choose BA but I'll stick my neck out and say I desperately want surgery and would have it in a heart beat if I could justify the cash outlay. And you know what? I want them just for me.

I have incredibly small boobs and post ds they have magically become simultaneously both small and saggy. My work clothes means that no one could tell if I had playboy tits or flat chested boob wannabes. My dh is of the 'no unnecessary surgery' camp but I still want them. It doesn't keep me awake at night, I think I'm reasonably attractive, I wouldn't be heartbroken if I never had them, I don't think they're going to revolutionise my life/body image but if I had the finances I would still get them.

I think having breast implants is a form of mutilation - why on earth do women get to the point of thinking I'm not a real woman unless I have a pair of 'big' tits....I think there is too much pressure to look a certain way. Some women, after having mastectomies choose not to have reconstructive surgery, which to me takes a very strong person, considering how much emphasis we seem to place on them. I'm sure a lot of men really aren't as bothered as we often are, about how they look. I am so glad I'm middle aged and have come to a point in life where I think "if you don't like how I look it's YOUR problem, not mine". I've suffered dysmorphia and anorexia - very common in a lot of women, I think, in our Western society which is completely obsessed with images of how a women should look, and if you're not attractive you're s a sad case. I come from a family of large chested women, which I am not, and sadly I let myself think there was something lacking in me because I wasn't big busted, which now I realise is SUCH a waste of life and time and completely pointless. Tits do NOT maketh the woman lol. I feel a low self esteem which is something some women can say they have because of a small chest is something which can happen because you are trying to live up to what OTHERS expect and what they think is acceptable/normal. Bollocks to them, I say! Also, I think sometimes we (women) ourselves are our own biggest enemy - why are we buying into this rather sick concept and when/if will we ever stop buying into it? It often seems to me it does us more harm than good. The personality, the inner self - that's what really matters. Just my opinions....what a lot of hot air I talk!!! lol

I don't know if I'm alone in this (I haven't read every post here), but I have always liked my small boobs (34A/B). I was always sporty and a lot of my friends bemoaned their larger more mobile chests when running etc. I never had any negative comments from guys, some even said 'anymore than a handful is a waste'
I've just finished BF and am really hoping they reduce back down to their original size cos I hate it when they bounce!!

Dianehazel Not all women want "big tits", augmentations are done to correct lopsided breasts, some people just want a handful for the first time in their lives.
Some women, after having mastectomies choose not to have reconstructive surgery, which to me takes a very strong person, considering how much emphasis we seem to place on them.
Are the ones that opt for augmentation weak then?
Tits do NOT maketh the woman this I do agree with 100% and I think sometimes we (women) ourselves are our own biggest enemy
So why the judgement on other women that choose to have a ba, whatever their reason?

HOMEMADECAKES You say that having a boob job completely changed your life and then go on to say that you can't breastfeed and you don't have any sensation in your nipples!!! And you are still advocating having implants? Think of all the pleasure you've missed out on. Did the surgeons at any time warn you that you might lose the sensation in your nipples? I too have a 34a chest but so what? I don't feel it affects my self respect in the least.

I can tell you, maple, not having implants is no guarantee you'll maintain nipple sensation.

Dianehazel, I think you talk a lot of sense. I don't agree with every last word, but you're damn right about tits not making the woman.

Dianeh, speaks sense.
It is not correct as said above that I want everyone to have the same views. In fact I said theopposite - that I am a libertarian and want diversity in terms fof people and they can exercise that choice (although the NHS certainily shouldn't pay to right the wrongs done to these women stupid enough to have the operation in the first place). YOu will with the consequences of your own supposed choices/conditioning.

Also you can tell with many of the womeh who have them. They look siloly and fake even if small and they don't hang right and are kindo f hard, never mind those on the thread who say they lose sensation (who would ever choose that) and feel very strange when touched.

VLS, how is discussing women's actual breasts analogous to discussing a surgically implanted prosthetic? The former is something we have, but the latter is a social trend with various risks to women's health.

In the mid 80's my mum developed breast cancer. She was given a full mastectomy and with no counselling was fitted with a Dow Corning implant. About 6 years later, this burst, releasing silicone into her bloodstream. She went on to develop scleroderma which is a hardening of the skin and blood vessels as a result of antibodies rushing to try and deal with the silicone which, being inert could not be broken down by the body. She lost the ability to grip, her facial expressions were reduced and she struggled to walk because of the scleroderma.To cut a long story short she developed breast cancer again which spread rapidly and she died in 1998. So many women were affected by Dow Corning implants that the company tried to put itself into liquidation to avoid paying compensation. After a further 10 years my dad received a "compensation" cheque of just £1500.
Your natural breasts are beautiful ladies, whatever their shape and size - be happy and glad to be healthy, with breasts. Be happy to be alive.