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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that the West is seriously fucked up on the bosom front?

918 replies

Hullygully · 12/01/2012 12:49

Bags of poison sewn into our infant feeding parts.

How fucked up is that?

OP posts:
Hullygully · 13/01/2012 09:39

I knew her dad

OP posts:
MrGin · 13/01/2012 09:43

I don't personally think Kate Moss is very attractive, but I know what you mean.

I'm not saying that you need a boob job to look good in clothes. Just that the boob job look is better when clothed than when nekkid.

Hullygully · 13/01/2012 09:46
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AbsofCroissant · 13/01/2012 09:54

Did you know her Dad, or know her dad?

CrunchyFrog · 13/01/2012 09:55

I suppose that if you're used to being pushed out/ sucked in/ pinched and prodded by your actual clothing then it's quite a small leap to enduring surgery. Or something.

I personally feel that clothes that hurt/ are uncomfortable are not fit for purpose. But then, other people might feel that the purpose of clothing is to look attractive.

I don't understand why women think they do these things "for themselves." The few concessions I make to beauty stuff (eyebrow tint because I have blonde ones, occasional makeup) are done purely and simply to make me look better - more attractive! Not just to men, either. It's vanity.

But you get onto the big stuff, like fanjo waxing, surgery etc, and suddenly it's done to make "yourself" feel good, without reference to the outside world? Don't be delusional, nobody exists in a vacuum.

Hullygully · 13/01/2012 10:01

A mere passing acquaintance, Absy.

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Mamamamoose · 13/01/2012 10:15

Those lines are fed to women by the marketing industry, Crunchy.

What would help would be if women were better educated, and thus better able to understand why they were being fed those messages.

NettleTea · 13/01/2012 11:38

There was a lovely guy who had phoned in to Woman's Hour this morning in response to this issue. He felt that the problem about the dodgy implants (it was a discussion as to who should be responsible for getting them out/replacing them) was the deeper issue that we live in a male driven society where women are valued because of their attractiveness, and this was wrong, and resulted in people having this surgery.

I am not quite sure how the return to 'real' can happen in the media without it having some kind of commercial benefit because, as Hully says, the fashion/celeb/media thing is all about money. In the past the majority of women were NOT binding their feet and strapping themselves into corsets and whatever - these were only the tiny numbers of the upper classes, because fashion was not for the masses. Most women were working and wearing fairly generic clothing, which changed little over time, because they couldnt afford it, and it was not directed at them or practical for their lives. Its only since the film industry got going that fashion began to filter down to the general population, and post war this took off until we have reached the point now where 'fashion' and 'celebrity' is now targetted at every part of the population.

I agree that it is a woman's choice, but like many things which are choice (such as the right to vote for the BNP) its a sad state of affairs that women have been objectified to such a point that society has created an ideal which neccetates surgery in order to achieve it, or portrayed porn-bodies as normal. Its not just boobs, and its heading to full on genital 'correction', which is whats even more worrying. And as usual, its women who tend to be the subject, although there are beginning to be men who are having 6 pack surgery and more men having botox. Havent seen much evidence of men having penis enlargements though, and you can bet our bottom dollar that if it does head that way, it wont be to the detriment of sensitivity (unlike with breast or labial surgery, but hey, they are women, eh)

And actually, under the burkha many women are completely hair free, painted, plucked, purfumed and dressed head to foot in the most expensive and glamourous clothing (and lingerie) that they can afford. But thats only for their husband to look at.

Hullygully · 13/01/2012 11:39

all v true, nettle.

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MrGin · 13/01/2012 11:46

What's the opinion on breast reduction ?

hmc · 13/01/2012 11:58

I wouldn't personally have a breast enlargement although I am smaller than average - I have previously considered it but decided that I wouldn't have it done because of my general misgivings about how society is increasingly objectifying women and creating false and oppressive expectations. However I don't judge those women with small breasts / flat chested who do opt for surgery- it can make you feel conspicuous and uncomfortable and there a natural human desire to fit in. Those of you with 'average' proportions shouldn't be so roundly judgemental (not all of you but a couple of posters on this thread have jarred a little )

ClothesOfSand · 13/01/2012 12:04

I think that given the massive range of human diversity that exists in the UK, and the discrimination and problems that many people often face, that perhaps most people who think the size of their breasts is a major issue to be faced in life perhaps need to gain a sense of perspective.

Thistledew · 13/01/2012 12:09

NettleTea - all women used to wear corsets. They were not just a fashion item. However, working women would not draw in their waists as much a women who had the luxury of being 'fashionable'. A well-fitting, made to measure corset is not restrictive. It encourages deep diaphragm breathing rather than shallow chest breathing, and probably saved many thousands of women who spent long hours bent over scrubbing laundry by hand, scrubbing floors or carrying heavy buckets of water from considerable amounts of back pain.

I know several women who are historical recreationists who say that they are far more comfortable at the end of a day on their feet when they have been wearing their properly constructed, made to measure corset, than when they have not.

Of course, there were women who would try to pull in their corsets tighter than was really sensible, but the corset itself was not a tool of oppression.

NettleTea · 13/01/2012 12:12

Breast reduction is most usually due to medical grounds, as they result in terrible backache and posture and can be restricting for the woman. I personally have no problem with that.

I just read a sad post on a web forum that I visit due to my daughters illness. There is a young woman seeking advice about having implants. 2 clinics have refused her due to her condition and risks due to her lung function and GA. However she still wants them and is asking where to go. Others on the board have pointed out the risk of infection due to surgery and anaesthetic, the fact that health will be compromised due to a reduction in the ability to do chest physiotherapy after the procedure (or do any at all until they are healed, which is a major part of the daily treatment for this condition) and the risk of rupture if/when a portacath is fitted (as is pretty much 100% likely for this disease). Despite this she is still wanting to go ahead because she is 'desperate' to have them, and another girl on the forum has pointed her towards a clinic who did hers.

I am just so shocked and saddened that she is willing to seriously jeapodise her future health for the sake implants. This illness does mean that she is probably quite skinny, possibly short, and will have delayed development (so she may well develop bigger breasts naturally) and have problems with digestion and malnutrition (often goes hand in hand with its own version of diabetes) Its also been said that should she need a transplant (as do many) then the implants may have some problems associated with that, but Im not sure about that. Where have we got in society that young girls are 'desperate' to this extent. I would be 'desperate' if my dd wanted to risk her health like this in the future.

NettleTea · 13/01/2012 12:14

OK,Im corrected on the corset front! But the 'fashions' of the day were still aimed at high society.

NettleTea · 13/01/2012 12:15

oh, or prostitutes and actresses........

mishtake · 13/01/2012 13:23

most people who think the size of their breasts is a major issue to be faced in life perhaps need to gain a sense of perspective

Yes. Absolutely.
The fact that this kind of cosmetic surgery has been "normalised" is beyond all sanity. And by buying into this nonsense these women are complicit with a malign billion dollar industry that preys on people's insecurities for profit.

What we are teaching our daughters now?
Don't be an individual - be a sheep - be ashamed of who you are - if there is a chance of changing yourself surgically then you must - appearance is everything - intellect and talent and an interesting personality are nothing compared to the size of your tits.
Is that what we want for our daughters and for our society?

LadyBeagleEyes · 13/01/2012 13:44

YY to mishtake.

katykuns · 13/01/2012 15:39

I always kind of saw breasts as a symbol for being a woman... femininity as it were...

Taking this into account, I could see why flat chested women want to be bigger, because having virtually no boobs makes you feel less feminine. I think the people that are being viewed as a 'type' when it comes to this discussion are the Katie Price's, that looked perfectly fine and then went up to a crazy size, because they decided bigger is better.

Otherwise, I don't care all that much what individuals get up to. I am now an E/EE, and I want a reduction... am so uncomfortable :( (and pregnant!)

entropyglitter · 13/01/2012 15:56

What is feminine? Why do I need to feel feminine?

I am a woman (have X chromosomes). What can be more feminine than that?

entropyglitter · 13/01/2012 15:58

Or are you saying that 'proper' women, are delicate, and pretty, and into tatting, and flower arranging and have some previously determined minimum bust requirement? Oh and petite hairless flaps....definitely not a proper woman if you havent waxed...

bemybebe · 13/01/2012 16:27

"I always kind of saw breasts as a symbol for being a woman... femininity as it were..."

Bless... Grin
Does my 36DD qualify (I am size 12-14 now)? What about my 32A 8 years ago when I was size 6 or is it really too boyish? I am progressively more feminine as I add to my cuppage?

bemybebe · 13/01/2012 16:27

All natural by the way!!

katykuns · 13/01/2012 16:32

I did say 'I always saw it as..' not saying it is. I am not attempting to insult anyone! I can imagine that if there were people that felt the same way as I do, that it would be hard for them, because they MIGHT feel less feminine.

Jeeze some of you need to chill out lol

katykuns · 13/01/2012 16:33

"Or are you saying that 'proper' women, are delicate, and pretty, and into tatting, and flower arranging and have some previously determined minimum bust requirement? Oh and petite hairless flaps....definitely not a proper woman if you havent waxed..."

As for that comment, I think you are extremely oversensitive and a possibly have some issues lol, cos I didn't even remotely imply that at all O.O