to think Beaver's shouldn't allow girls, as Rainbows don't allow boys?

[CoralRose]

Can't see why it is this way? DS is asking... what's the answer? Why are girls allowed to join beavers, but boys not allowed to join rainbows?

Coralrose they're different organisations, so you can't blame Scouting for including. You can only blame Rainbows for excluding.

But seeker boys don't have any choice here

Boys need to wrestle, roll around, shoot guns, make dens, crawl through woods, get muddy etc.

Sounds like me as a kid. I'm female by way.....

Should add sounds like my daughters' childhoods too....

It's wrong that girls get to be in a traditionally boys organisation but boys don't get the same treatment.

You can bang on about stereotyping as much as you like, but there is always a reason why groups a given the stereotype they have, and usually it's because the live up to it.

There wil always be boys that don't like the things that are typically boyish, and vice versa for girls. So both organisations should stick to what they do best and allow the other sex to join if they wish.

The cultural reasons thing is bollocks, and it's not made ok just because someone wants to attach a cultural label to what is a silly reason not to allow boys into the rainbows or brownies. If some children wouldn't be allowed to join because of their religion, I don't see how that is a better reason than not being allowed to join because of your sex.

At least parents can freely choose to follow a religion and the restriction it puts on them, they don't have the same luxury when it comes to choosing the sex or personality of their children.

Coralrose, some jobs are for men, some jobs are for women and most jobs are for both men and women. That is the law.

There are various clubs that are boys only. The closest to the Scouts in terms of activity is the Boys' Brigade. There are also various sports groups and other physical activity groups that are boys only. There are also boys singing groups and boys drama groups.

If this is not the case where you live, then you and some like minded people need to set them.

The issue should be about those that don't accept both sexes rather than being snippy about those that do.

I don't like the tack that girls have somehow pushed their way in and spoilt Cubs/Scouts for boys. This isn't the experience we have had of it at all. As others have said you are at liberty of starting your own group anyway if you don't like whats on offer.

When I see how much time and effort goes into our Scout and Cub groups from volunteers I'd be pretty annoyed to think that because they are inclusive and welcoming to all this is somehow being levelled as a criticism of their efforts because another unconnected group happen to do things differently.

It may also be the case that people only live up to stereotypes because they are socialised into it. So it looks like differences are 'natural' and 'normal' when they are anything but (and this just fuels the stereotyping process and make life harder for, for example, little girls who don't want to wear frilly dresses and do dancing classes or little boys who really like sewing).

"But seeker boys don't have any choice here"

Yes they do, they can join Scouts. As they always have. Some girls will get nothing if guides becomes a mixed organization.

The whole gender thing is complete nonsense. Scouting should be for anyone who wants to do what scouts do (and, in my experience of scouts, it absolutely is). It's got nothing to do with gender; it's about whether or not you want to do what the group does.

Sorry to the eagle eyed people who willse that I have managed to make exactly the same post twice, one on p4 and again on p7. iPad issues!

Campaign to make Brownies inclusive or set up your own 'boys clubs'. Brwonie and Beavers leaders are all volunteers. You coul do the same.

I think both should be single sex, to enjoy doing things without having to worry about the other sex. Why can't girls be with girls and boys be with boys in peace?? Boys have to modify their behaviour with girls around, at most times, so that they aren't viewed as rough and nasty when they're just being boisterous. Can't they have a small time to just be themselves?
We have had a couple of girl beavers in the past but haven't got hem now.
By the way DH is a beaver leader and I know the amount of time that goes in, so so much more than the session time alone. He's constantly doing some admin task. And very few people have an idea or even say thank you (apart from one thank you Xmas card this year) but hey, that's another issue...

Threeprinces, yes, boys can have group time at organised activities to themselves. They just can't have it in the Scouts.

If you want that for boys, support organisations that offer it, but don't try and change the ones like the Scouts that don't.

I'm not tying to change it, I just wish it hadn't changed already and I think that's a shame.

To my knowledge there isn't anywhere else near here where they can have boys only activities.

I have never felt that I had to modify my behaviour based on the gender of those I was with (to the social situation etc, yes; just because i was in a mixed sex group, no). Even as a child, I was not more comfortable or more 'myself' or more 'free' with girls. I don't think I'm unique.

There is probably a nice boys only school you could pay to send them to. That way they won't have to hang out with sissy girls.

In some cultures, boys are not encouraged to mix with girls, so perhaps they are being excluded from Scouting by it being mixed.

As it happens, my dd1 is a scout, and my dd2 is a brownie. I was keen on dd1 joining scouts because she goes to a single sex secondary. Has she gone to a co-ed secondary, I would have encouraged her to join guides. However, I can see why some boys find it hard to understand why there is no "boys only space."

I really dont see why boys and girls cant play together. Do you think al girls play will dollies and all boys run around? Honestly?

DD is a Cub, alongside her brothers, and I have never heard a boy expressing a wish that the handful of girls who are Beavers/Cubs should not be there. The only concession to the girls is to do with complying with CRB rules about single-sex sleeping accommodation, so they get their own tent at camp.

I have also never heard a boy expressing a wish to be a Brownie.

It seems to me that the status quo is just fine

Also agree that anyone who moans about the set-up should get involved and help run the groups.

What are we talking about here wrt to boys 'modifying their behaviour around girls'?

Boys (and girls) are allowed to be energetic at our groups. They charge about, play games, have fun, let off steam, are competetive.

But no, if it gets out of hand and people might get hurt, it's put a stop to straight away. That would be the case even if it were just boys there though.

There is a difference between being boistrous and being rough and nasty even between boys playing alone together. The organisers know where to draw the line and they don't draw it just because there are girls in the room.

YANBU, my dts are at Cubs, previously went through Beavers and will be Scouts at the end of summer. They love it however dts1 worried that at some point girls would join and "spoil" everything because they are bossy!

I think boys (and girls) need some time apart. At school it is very much favoured towards the girls as they tend to be brighter and mature quicker. Boys need the muck and (mock) danger of going camping and making lots of noise without being told off - as what happens when they go to school camp and the girls can't be bothered with the noisy, smelly ones!

I also believe that if Brownies aren't offering what girls need then they have to change with the times and offer the rough and tumble. I am occasionally called upon to teach sewing skills and other crafts at the boys' group so it isn't all gungho!

'I think boys (and girls) need some time apart. At school it is very much favoured towards the girls as they tend to be brighter and mature quicker. Boys need the muck and (mock) danger of going camping and making lots of noise without being told off - as what happens when they go to school camp and the girls can't be bothered with the noisy, smelly ones!'

Thats a bit sexist. Girls need muck, camping and noise too.
These are children under puberty age. Why the fuck should they be segregated and think 'ewww, girls give cooties' or 'boys are yucky' unless some adult has filled their head with this crap.

I was the local Scout Group's secretary when my son was there which coincided with the girls starting to join. But we didn't have an active Girl Guides group at the time so perhaps that's why. I didn't see any stereotypical views like 'I'd be embarrassed' but as many boys drop out as young as 6-8 years as girls at that early age.

I can't speak highly enough of the Scouts - my 18 year old son started at 8 years old and has personal skills, confidence, independence and experiences he never would have otherwise. I can't imagine him being a Girl Guide ;) of course but Girl Scouts - why not - let them choose. And Bear Grylls is such a great role model as they grow.

seeker, oakmaiden and signet Have explained this far better than I can.
Signet wrote" I'm quite happy for my boys to not have the opportunity to go to brownies/guides if it means girls of all backgrounds have a safe place to go. Sometimes we just have to consider others in society rather than just ourselves."
Likewise, I try not to be annoyed that our local leisure centre was designed with one pool that is in an entirely separate room.
Personally I would have made one huge pool, with waves and slides.
Sadly, my enjoyment may have lead to another women loosing what little freedom she has to get out the house.
Unfortunately, we cannot change the world overnight, but hopefully we can take every opportunity to improve the opportunities open to and self confidence of women and girls of all backgrounds.