to envy/hate people on benefits to be as well off if not better than us

[chocaddict]

I know that this post may have some mixed reviews and may even get me slated but I can,t help it.
Someone I know although she is a genuine case her and her husband have as much as me and dh coming in and with a brand new car thrown in for good measure.
I can only dream of a new car and I work my tripe off 5 days a week as well as dh whilst some people can sit at home and get the same income coming in it seems really unfair.

FriendofDorothy

The thread is about those who claim benefits fraudulently.

So that would be 0.5% of the claimants.

Cameron claimed that 5.2% of claims were incorrect.

Incorrect yes, but only 1.5% of those were fraudulent, the rest were errors HALF of which errors from the DWP. And that is not DLA fraud, that is tax credit/housing etc.

This is from 2010, but the figures remain about the same

Tax evasion costs 15x more

I am off to start a thread; AIBU to hate/envy those people who have their money offshore.

Ooh I see they are ill too! Gosh, how you must envy them

mn hq aren't going to delete this thread even though it is full of sn hatred.
sick very sick and proves how little support the sn community have from mn hq

OP, you really are an arse aren't you?
FWIW, I've been back in England for five months. In that time, I have had at least zero pounds from the govt/your pocket.
Work is ridiculously hard to come by, yet, tomorrow I start as a domestic cleaner in a NH. I will get the grand sum of £6.06 an hour.
I don't know when I get my new car though.

Whilst I hear what you are trying to say FriendOfDorothy I think you are placing an incredibly positive slant upon the op which is not born out by what she actually posted.

Her opening post talked about people sitting at home all day which is a pretty unpleasant way to describe someone with disabilities and ger second post was

Add message | Report | Message poster chocaddict Sun 08-Jan-12 16:14:23
well I have seen many a person get disability allowance or anything else for that matter and they are quite capable of doing many a task.

I am not sure it improved much after that.

molepom yes cos sn bashing is so pretty glad you are pleased, shame about all the people being hurt but never mind

Kitchenroll
many many wealthy disabled people are eligible for DLA and do not claim it, going by the £20bn unclaimed benefits.

I don't get this idea of not giving people more than they absolutely need to live on idea.

Ok, I get that the taxpayer should not fund luxury holidays, but they really truly don't.

I wonder if the government made a mistake with mobility cars, actually. I get the reason behind it, that it is to enable a person with disabilities to have a car, but it seems to fuel the hate.

Seven..

I am pleased that the thread is stilll up because of my earlier post. Which said that the thread needs to stay up as a stark reminder to readers what the disabled and the carers ahve to put up with on a day to day basis.

Deleting threads like these only encourages more idots to posts shite like this because the have nothing to refer to what it's actually like being on benefits.

Please dont twist my words round, I have an SN son and in NO way was my post ment to be taken that I condone the OP's and similar posters attitude. If that was not clear, then I apologise but I do hope I've made it clear now.

Sevenfold
Actually, MNHQ have deleted a few posts and I am sure that they are keeping a close eye on the thread.

I understand that posters get tired of fighting this fight, and that you don't want to "educate" ignorant people, but I still think that it is good to leave these threads.

And perhaps one or two lurkers with start to think about the real issues here.

And perhaps some of them will get a bit worked up and come and froth with us on the Frothers TooManyCuts blog

You can actually buy a house on benefits.

And there is thought to be fairly large fraud around housing benefit by criminal gangs. But the systems to detect organised fraud are very poor.

sorry, am with Sevenfold on this one, this total biggotted ignorance should not be allowed to stand. First time in ten years I have reported a post, I am truly disgusted with the thread.

+May I add a new demension to the usually (very good) point 'why dont you give up your job and go on benefits if it is so easy?'

Why, if you think its so easy/a gateway to lots of money and all worth it for a free care - do you not adopt one of the many children in care with SN/disabilities?

There are a lot and they all need homes. Just think! You could give up work (well you would have to give up work), discover that even the most severely disabled children do not automatically qualify for a significant adoption allowance BUT that would be ok because you could live on all that DLA and stuff.

Just make sure you dont adopt a child under 3 because you stand little chance of getting a higher rate and you wont get any mobility. BUT you will get your £53 a week - BUT only if you manage to get mid rate care (see above about adopting older children only).

But never mind if you put the work in and fight for around five years or so to prove your child IS disabled you might get a car and a few extra quid a week eventually.

That bit about adopting an older child - make sure they are not too old because once they reach 18/19 it all stops because they become adults and are therefore miraculously cured of any problems they have had throughout childhood.

But as they are still actually disabled they wont be moving out so you will then have to negotiate adult services on their behalf.

And dont forget - come back and let us know how you get on with that

yes we do. time and time again this happens.
yet the sick shit stirring op is still there. even though she admits to hating .
if this was about race....whoosh it would be gone, but disablist shit is allowed to stand in the name of education.
why? to make bigots happy, it isn't like they are ever going to be educated.

lesley
This is my point.

You can buy a house on benefits but it is ILLEGAL.

Just as stealing is illegal.

But you would not hate/envy someone who took something from a store LEGALLY as that would be buying not stealing.

And you don't rant at random shoppers, because some people steal from shops, "Oh, I don't mean you, I know you bought it and all, but those who pinch clothes, well they just make me hate people who buy clothes".

molepom well well done. mn hq quoted you in their email as too why they are allowing it to stay.
yet I wonder how many from the sn community want this kind of thing gone.

Why is it illegal? I am genuinely surprised that you say this. I know disabled people who can't work who have bought houses. And as it is income, why shouldn't they?

Sevenfold
I get your point, and I know that people like the OP are not going to be miraculously convinced.

But there are many many lurkers and sometime posters, who right now are seeing a different side to the issues that the mainstream press just do not present.

A rare example and one from the Daily Mail about Boris Johnson attacking the Tory plans.

I meant if you were buying a house on benefits received fraudulently.

I think there is a misunderstanding between out of work benefits such as JSA and benefits that enable people to work such as DLA.

Of course you can buy a house when you are in receipt of DLA as it is not means tested.

I doubt you could buy a house from JSA income.

I am not going to read all this as I've already had one nervous breakdown in the last 2 months and frankly another would be surplus to requirements.

Anyone who thinks we get everything should come and visit! My family consists of me (carer, PT student) and DH (FT student following redundancy graduating soon, PT worker going FT on graduation, severe MH issues following events of last few years. Worked FT often on permanent nights all his adult life prior to redundancy).

Also the boys (all born BEFORE redundancy was ever worried about)...

DS1- Asperger's, severe enough to necessitate a SN school placement

DS3- autism, won;t ever work I would guess due to concentration- attends Sn palcement. The LEA want him to attend a school with several hundred more children than places (Wales, different admissions system here) without support: er no. Over my dead body and all that. He doesn;t function in a group over 12 kids anyway so hardly!

DS4- being assessed, clear AS, at MS pre-school attached to Primary but might not stay at a guess after year 2. Has waited since April to see someone but nowhere near top of list yet.

DS2- was referred formally Friday, school suspect ADD.

I plan to go back to work when ds4 starts school, if I can't find anything before September then I will go self employed but no idea how as lease says I cannot register business to this house- only a consultancy but still can't pay business rent without clients = vicious circle.

Anyway:

2 get DLA. We have no plans to apply for other boys as right now there are no additional costs incurred by their SN, which is spirit of it. DS1's needs have increased if anything but expect him to be downgraded in December when reapplying because it is happening to everyone with his DX. At 12 he still sleeps little and needs constant supervision, never goes out without an adult. Neither DH or I have ever claimed anything health related, not even when I could not walk for 3 months in my twenties which actually was pretty damn stupid in retrospect but there you go. Quite possibly led to my then relationship ending.

We get Tax credit help but that will halve with Universal Credit even though IMO anyone who can't see dealing with several children with SN adds more complications (eg we have 4 schools!) is a dunce. If ds1's DLA is downgraded I will be forced to work or attend workfare, we will have no carer exemption.

After my breakdown my GP and HV have gone to battle to get me help. HomeStart are coming Friday although ds4 is 4 in April so won;t get much support but grateful- used to work fro them so know what their waiting list is like! NAS are offering us 2 hours a week from a befriender for ds1.

Social Services have been asked to help us several times nd refused- I had a carer's assessment before breakdown so their legal duty is complete and apart from a holiday club that EVERY child in my county gets access to, it's a great big sod off.

Up until now it has been nothing at all though so you know, improvement. Family can't help as not in Wales plus they have my Grandad to care for and he is 91.

We do NOT have a council house or mobility car.

My studies are in ASD, post grad but very part time and over years- luckily covered before redundancy, by about a week in fact (same week DH's place was told no redundancies possible grrrr). I have ahd emails telling me I should not be studying or that is a 'nice hobby' becuase I won;t make anything of it; like Hell I won't!

The breakdown consisted of me getting exhausted after 12 months of no sleep and convincing myself that my family were such a drain that I personally would do the county a favour if I were dead and euthanised. Thank goodness for citalopram.

If anyone who thinks disabled and carer famillies get it easy you should swap. If you want to then you are so nuts you should seek help.

I hate threads like this actually - who does the OP think she is?

She knows people who don't work due to disability. In her words they are genuine claimants who evidently get mobility at the higher rate (that's "unable or virtually unable to walk" for those who don't know) and she begrudges them their benefit.

Not surprisingly those of us who have personal experience of disability are pissed off at her thick attitude.

And "self inflicted" means I assume the OP is a non smoking, teetotal health freak who is an ideal weight and does the recommended exercise, eats her five per day etc etc etc. I also assume she us childless because having children by choice is also to risk disability as a result of pregnancy illness/ unforeseen birth probs. That could also be considered "self inflicted " as nobody told her to have a baby.
Any of the OP's future illnesses might also be considered "self inflicted" if they are as a result of any of the above.

Bet she would be the first to claim her DLA and "free" car if entitled though.

MmeLindor so people from the sn community should just suck this vile hatred up, just so a lurker might be educated??
sorry but that is wrong.

Yes I mean 2 people on DLA - but too disabled to work. Was a reply to another post which said that you can't buy a house on benefits. Of course jsa wouldn't be enough to buy a house.

FriendofDorothy Sun 08-Jan-12 23:09:57

"Who doesn't feel a bit narked when they feel as though they work all the time when someone else gets things more easily?"

Did you miss the bit where the OP conceded that the people she was talking about were genuinely disabled. Or are you really thick enough to believe that living with disability every day spells "getting things more easily"?

It's all in the word, Dis-ability: it dis-ables you from doing things, it doesn't bloody make things easier!

The benefits are there to (go some way towards) redressing the balance and putting you on the footing of someone who (through no merit of their own) happens not to be disabled.

I am fit and healthy, my friend is not. I can walk to the shops. Thanks to her mobility allowance she can, at least, make it to the shops, though obviously with a lot more effort than I have to put in. Does that make me envious of her? Think again.

Chocaddict I can sort of see where your op is coming from.

I used to live on an HA street. One family in particular moaned constantly about how little in benefits they received yet as the mother put it, they'd need to earn £30k to "make it worth" their while to work.

They had a motability car which he used to go to the job he was paid cash in hand for. So she, who was the one registered disabled, didn't actually get to use it.

When ex-h left I had to go on benefits for a while & it wasn't much for me & dts but I saw it as a temporary situation. She told me that if I went to the docs with a bad back and depression I'd be able to claim & they'd never be able to prove otherwise. As I was suffering from depression at the time I was more than a little horrified at this attitude & ignored the "advice."

I wasn't envious. Yes the car wasn't theirs exactly but they got to change it for a new one every 3 years, didn't pay for anything but the fuel and complained about that. It did make me angry for people who are in need & have to share a system with people (& there are more than some would like to admit) who see it as an easy living.

If that's how they want to be then you should pity them for not knowing how good it is to know you've paid for things & it is yours. I'm off work sick at the moment & it is paining me to lose my independence & not be at work but again, I will be back once I'm better & I'm having to learn patience. I may not have much but it is mine.

(I say this despite the fact that while I've been off my work reduced my hours to 16, if I could I'd use this time to look elsewhere!)

Sevenfold
No, you should not have to suck this hatred up, which is why there are plenty of us without personal experience of SN here fighting in your corner with you.

And the most offensive posts have been removed. (I presume, I can only see that some have been removed).

There have been immigrant bashing threads on MN, so it is not true that all racist threads would immediately be deleted. And there are shades of grey there too. If someone were to post, "AIBU to think that black people are thick as pig shit" then you can be sure it would go pouf. A thread titled, "AIBU to think that people who come to our country should learn English" might not, depending on the responses.

Lesley
Would a couple be able to buy a house from their DLA? I cannot image that, it is only about £6k a year.