Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to envy/hate people on benefits to be as well off if not better than us

999 replies

chocaddict · 08/01/2012 16:08

I know that this post may have some mixed reviews and may even get me slated but I can,t help it.
Someone I know although she is a genuine case her and her husband have as much as me and dh coming in and with a brand new car thrown in for good measure.
I can only dream of a new car and I work my tripe off 5 days a week as well as dh whilst some people can sit at home and get the same income coming in it seems really unfair.

OP posts:
SuePurblybilt · 08/01/2012 19:46

What Pag said. Only for 'prissy' I'd've put 'fucking insensitive and oblivious to the hurt and downright rage caused by said guffers'

characidae · 08/01/2012 19:47

If my dc called a disablist cunt a disablist cunt I'd be proud of them :)

Pagwatch · 08/01/2012 19:48

I was skirting around the delete button there sue Grin

I wish anyone who complained about benefits instantly had any child benefit withdrawn.
Actually I don't really because I wouldn't want their dc to suffer. But perhaps they should have to complete a 40 page form detailing all the ways in which they are nit usually an arse.

Dawndonna · 08/01/2012 19:52

Iuse I don't want to have to fill in more forms. I do more than enough. Yes, the system doesn't work as well as it should, but there is no way that others would understand what the so called luxuries are. Clothes without seams, the 'right' food. As for sending in well trained people, that too is unworkable, my dh and my kids cannot talk to strangers. It takes them longer to process information, and of course, time would be limited. My dh cannot sit for more than a couple of minutes at a time, he has to lie down, and continually change position. The medication he requires can sometimes make him less coherent. Well trained people may not follow. You then have the problem with people with ASDs. They may answer a question logically, you can guarantee it would be the wrong answer. eg. If my dd were asked 'Can you pick up a pound coin from the floor?' ( A standard ATOS question), her answer would be 'yes'. She can't. But the question is frequently, wrongly phrased, if asked 'are you able? the answer would be No.

My son is unable to cross a road safely, if questioned, he can tell you how to do it, but he is unable to carry out the theory, the theory which he knows inside out and back to front, applying said theory however, is a very different matter.

Ergo, well trained people for dla forms is completely unworkable.

IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll · 08/01/2012 19:53

Right, because being a 24/7 carer or tetraplegic can be the only way you have any knowledge of disability Hmm

alemci · 08/01/2012 19:56

but has the OP said that the lady is on disability benefit.

I am sure she is not bashing every benefit claimant.

cory · 08/01/2012 19:57

IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll Sun 08-Jan-12 19:36:12

"There's no need to assume that my life is a million miles away from the reality you describe just because I have ideals and don't automatically subscribe to the train of thought that sees all benefits as something that should be increased."

I too have ideals: they mainly involve being proud that I can work and help to contribute to a society where people who do not have my good fortune of being fit and healthy can still get at least some of their most basic needs filled.

The fact that I am no longer trying to claim DLA for dd has nothing to do with ideals, though; that's just exhaustion.

TotemPole · 08/01/2012 19:58

Iuse, I get what you're suggesting but I don't see how that would work for a lot of people. For some the extra expense is a few £ here, a few £ there on replacing broken/lost items, special diets, modified clothing. It isn't big expenditure such as a holiday, iphone, etc. They need the extra on a weekly basis.

IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll · 08/01/2012 19:59

Dawn, see I don't think those things re too hard to understand. But then my ds has ASD too. Your dh's situation sounds very difficult, but plenty of people have others to fill in the forms, this wouldn't have to be any different.

No system is going to be perfect for everyone, but personally, I think the way things are done at the moment could be much improved with some human contact.

Birdsgottafly · 08/01/2012 19:59

Kitchen roll- the system that you quote would be unworkable and much more expensive than it is now.

If you are disabled, under the Community Care Act, you can be assessed for your 'needs', recently the calculating of benefits has, had to be taken out of the responsibility of SW.

Most people go to welfare rights organisations. These fill in and go to the appeals for DLA, with the lients. On average 80% of people who have been turned down for benefit, win there case, on appeal. The company that hold the benefit tribunals are staffed by suppossedly experienced, qualified people, but they are getting it wrong. The same would happen under the proposal that you suggest.
Under EU law (so therefore beyond UK law) it is written that benefit decisions must have a right to appeal. The government have a duty to ensure a standard of living for all and have to fight poverty (one again EU law). As others have said DLA is the cheapest way of doing this as otherwise the bill would have to be picked up out of Adult SS and would cost more, anyway. Under various Acts, the law could be used to supply these but that would mean we would have to triple (minimum) the amount of SW's to oversee this. No other professional can assess, under the law, for these services. The welfare rights organisations would head these applications whih would take a well staffed process, to go through. There are time constraints, as there is under claiming DLA, under 'special rules'. Having a lead proffession oversee that would ost the country a fourtune.

Much easier to put this onto families by giving them disability benefits. Look into why the institutions closed, it was the cost that spurred this on.

KalSkirata · 08/01/2012 20:00

why do you think disabled people generally want user led organisations? Cos we are sick of those who think they have knowledge of disability deciding stuff.

KalSkirata · 08/01/2012 20:01

'No system is going to be perfect for everyone, but personally, I think the way things are done at the moment could be much improved with some human contact.'

What, Like ATOS?
hahahahahahahahahahahaha

WhingingNinja · 08/01/2012 20:02

Toem - please do not justify your finances to these people. It does nothing to cure their ignorance and in fact it just makes them feel their questioning valid.

it is not.

Dawndonna · 08/01/2012 20:03

Yes, ATOS. Unqualified, inexperienced and banned from operating in many US states.

ProPerformer · 08/01/2012 20:04

Im not prissy at all, I would be LIVID if my DS called ANYONE a C* weather I felt it deserved or not. As for asking for OP to desist - I re-read the original post - I don't agree with it entirely but I can see where the gripe is coming from plus it was all stated as opinion so what's the harm? People are entitled to their opinions.

Oh and BTW I have had experience of JSA and DLA (due to depression) so do know a bit about what they entail though by no means an expert.)

nothingoldcanstay · 08/01/2012 20:06

Oh come on she's not not actually complaining about benefits per say she complaining that work doesn't pay.

How can I be better off as a student for F*'s sake than when I was was working two jobs that put me well over" full time"?

Really, the system is a nonsense. It's bloody stressful working- always having the childcare to sort out,costs of transport to work to worry about and juggling your own life.

IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll · 08/01/2012 20:09

Birds, I know it would cost more, but it would be worth it. IMO anyway, but I appear to be in a minority.

Kal, that would be why I have been helping to set one of those up over the last two years.

BoysBoysBoysAndMe · 08/01/2012 20:10

Surely it's the system that is wrong?

And there will always be people who take advantage of such a 'great' system.

If the system didn't pay so much to claiments, then they would have no choice but to get off their ass and work WHATEVER job is out there.

For people who GENUINELY NEED to stay at home for a disability or to look after a severely disabled person, I think that they should get appropriate and adequate help.

There are jobs out there. Imo, people just don't want to do them.. Loads of Security, Cleaning and Care jobs everywhere. On top of the skilled and professional vacancies. It is utter tripe for people to say 'there is no jobs' - something I have been 'told' recently.

AmberLeaf · 08/01/2012 20:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

Birdsgottafly · 08/01/2012 20:11

We all know that most work doesn't pay, that is why working tax redit et was put in place, God forbid, that we should have had a decent minimum wage instead.

Don't attack those that are already in a position of vulnerability and target those with power. You won't fight injustice by starting at the bottom.

IndieSkies · 08/01/2012 20:13

People confuse DLA and disability benefits with Incapacity Benefit.

The instance of fraud for Disability Benefits is almost zilch, is it not?

OP - being a bit skint when you are young, have a family etc is NORMAL. Then as you get promoted, carry ion working but have lower or no childcares costs, you start to enjoy a better standard of living and get some savings. or whatever.

If you are disabled your difficulties stay the same for life.

On all job-seeker / unemployment / carer type benefits the person on them is not earning promotion prospects, not paying into a higher earnings-related state pension, etc etc. it is keeping them TRAPPED in poverty. So be thankful that you have jobs and a level of independence and autonomy that will enable you to do better for yourselves as you go on. And stop whinging about others.

Pagwatch · 08/01/2012 20:13

People are entitled to express opinions. People are entitled to respond as they see fit. I am entitled to see your post as prissy.
I am not sure what your point is.

AmberLeaf · 08/01/2012 20:16

Loads of Security, Cleaning and Care jobs everywhere

Oh yeah, those would be the 12 hr shift [inc nights] and early am starts jobs, not do able if you have children and no support [ie lone parent or no free family childcare]

If the system didn't pay so much to claiments

Ha ha ha.

tallwivglasses · 08/01/2012 20:16

"I think we need to update the Message Deleted by MN post.
One: Message deleted for disablist shite
Two: Message deleted for swearing at disablist shite

Just so those who read this tomorrow can keep up Smile "

How about if disablist shite (and swearing) were kept in for, say, 24 hours so people can follow the argument? It's really frustrating trying to piece together what people have said by reading the following posts, which are often responding to something that's been deleted further up-thread. My brain aches!

Then MN should delete disablist posts and send out warnings like they would to racists.

I can't respond to deleted posts but I'm happy to say to the OP you can guarantee my post would be deleted if I told you exactly what I think of you.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 08/01/2012 20:17

yet again these threads are full of entitled whingers.

They are , as usual, the ones who have a job or an OH who has a job.

You work, big deal, get on with it and stop moaning.

Jeez when did people start getting like this about going to work? We have worked for centuries without carrying on like we are something special.

Working is not particularly stressful unless you have a stressful job. The word stress is over used these days.

Once you have experienced real stress you tend not to fling the word about quite so freely.

Swipe left for the next trending thread