to envy/hate people on benefits to be as well off if not better than us

[chocaddict]

I know that this post may have some mixed reviews and may even get me slated but I can,t help it.
Someone I know although she is a genuine case her and her husband have as much as me and dh coming in and with a brand new car thrown in for good measure.
I can only dream of a new car and I work my tripe off 5 days a week as well as dh whilst some people can sit at home and get the same income coming in it seems really unfair.

I think we need to update the Message Deleted by MN post.
One: Message deleted for disablist shite
Two: Message deleted for swearing at disablist shite

Just so those who read this tomorrow can keep up .

Making applications for funding to have what you need for a quality of life? Great Idea

3 years ago it was recommended that an extension, housing a wet room and bedroom, be built on to my house. The extension was an agreed neccessity, we where put on the waitng list and that is where we have been ever since, the money is there waiting to be spent, the builders are there waiting to build, the reason why no building work (except small quick jobs) has been done in our council district? Because they have no one to project manage.

sometimes the only answer to some people is to walk away shaking your head because you know no matter how much you show them the reality they will refuse to see it.

I'm not saying you shouldn't have a voice on what you spend your money on. I'm saying you would have full time national minimum wage (whatever that is) to choose what to spend your money on, and anything else you need as a result of disability you would get provided separately.

You wouldn't have to beg, you would have to make an application with a person with common sense, and then you would get what you need.

Do you really think that my imaginary system would be worse for you than it is now?

And yes, to whoever made the point about trying to get something out of SS, I do know what it's like. Same for wheelchair services, OT, etc etc. but I am talking my imaginary world where I am boss.

God you stupid kitchenroll woman you don't know anything and you never will because you just DON'T LISTEN.

DP's assistive technology door from the NHS took 22 months to fit, cost them over £3,000 in materials alone (not including the parade of 'engineers'), and does not work.

I am just about to replace it with a second hand iphone and an arduino motor. Cost: £97 and 1 week googling. And this one works. But the NHS would NEVER provide an iPhone because of this same puritanical obsession with no one having anything nice or good (that would just encourage people to be quadriplegic). Sumptuary 2012.

But it works, the iPhone. That's why we need DLA. Disability is really complicated. Everyone is different. There are no one size fits all solutions. It's cheaper, easier, more efficient, more humane, to enable people to solve their own problems. That's support. That's care.

Your way isn't just impractical and patronising; it's, to put it plainly, a welfare scheme for the middle classes off the backs of the most vulnerable. Jobs for the boys, is your idea. No thank you.

I know this will get deleted. I'm past caring.

I agree with KalSkirata, that the big problem would be how to get the people who administer the funds to understand that essentials may be completely different things from what they imagine- and completely different from person to person.

I consider myself a reasonably well educated, verbal and confident person, but I totally failed to convince the powers that be that my disabled and intermittently wheelchair and/or bed bound dd needed even lower rate mobility DLA; in fact, I had to go to appeal to even convince the LEA that she needed a school with disabled access.

I realised afterwards about the DLA that one of the biggest problems was that the consultants we were dealing with at that time genuinely thought that allowing a child to use aids, such as wheelchairs or motability cars, was a Bad Thing as it would make them Think of Themselves as Disabled (one consultant actually said so, several times).

They were thinking of it from their pov, how they would feel if they suddenly had to sit in a chair rather than walk about independently. Not from the pov of a child whose only other alternative was to crawl or stay in bed. I did shock him one day by encouraging dd to leave her wheelchair outside. I could tell from his expression that he really hadn't thought this through: you could see how it suddenly dawned on him that the alternative to getting adequate support isn't always all that pretty.

A lack of imagination in non-disabled people is a massive problem.

I know people of both varieties, cheats and none cheats, the single mums who receive benefits i know, don't have it easy, so i dont know where this idea has come from they all do it for the money.

We are lucky enough to live in a country (i presume this is the UK) that will support people who are disabled, which is a privileged and i can imagine most disabled people would rather be not disabled and work, than be able disabled to meet the DLA criteria? Think of it that way?

My uncle gets a car allowance and he's worked very all his life, huge pension very well off, why does he get it? because he's disabled

I get a free buss pass because I've got epilepsy - flame me now, OP!

thanks totally dunno why people bother arguing with tossers that start these threads, mn use to be a great forum now its gone to shit

"The top rate of DLA is £5,605 LESS than a 35 hour week at NMW. They don't get more. It's less. It's MUCH less. It's HALF."

Granted, and I'm nit against benefits at all and certainly think disabled people should get them HOWEVER with my 30 hour a week job + mortgage for a TINY 2 bed house and childcare I would end up with -£23 a week (roughly) for food etc a week! My job basically pays for all that!

Now explain how that works?
(again I not against people who need them getting benefits - it's the system I hate! )

I do appreciate that in IUses' world there is a plethora of imaginative and sensible people to deal with these issues. But in the real world we need a system that will work with ordinary people. And let's face it, the people with the most insight are by definition usually going to be the disabled people themselves and/or their carers.

And TheLightPassenger makes a good point: why shouldn't this apply to child benefits and all other benefits too? Let's have more paperwork! Let's all spend our time explaining exactly why Johnnie needs 5 nappies a day while Emily nextdoor, who is three days younger than him, can get away with 4.

Yes, Iuse you are saying that I may receive a minimal sum to choose to spend as I see fit and anything else I should beg for.

Thing is:
a) I have a PHd. I am therefore articulate enough to fulfil the criteria for begging. Others are not.
b) I'm a tenacious old bitch, so will get what is necessary.
c)You are still saying that I am not capable of making the necessary decisions required regarding the spending of any monies over the NMW.
How dare you suggest or even contemplate such a thing, it's ill thought out and ill mannered. I live here, I have common sense, I know what is required.

I get so angry with posts like the OP's for so many reasons:

1)The majority of people who live on benefits do so because they have no choice.

2) Their standard of living is incredibly low with many living in relative and/ or absolute poverty. This should not be happening in a developed country.
3) The vast majority of benefit claimants are entitled to do so, they are not cheats or fraudsters.

4) You may work and pay taxes but it doesn't mean your money is being paid out in benefits.

5) You have no right to dictate how people spend their benefits.

The whole idea of separating the poor into 'deserving' and 'undeserving' is absolutely disgusting and OP you should be ashamed of your selfish and ignorant views.

it is very simple.
if you are a complete and utter fucking plank, so ignorant that you make a dog turd seem enlightened and you actually do waste the tiny amount of brain activity that you can muster on feeling envious of those on benefits, then give up your job and sign on.

Then you too can live a life of luxury.

I don't get why these total and utter fuck nuggets get hundreds of posts trying to reason with them.

You'd have more luck trying to train a fish to ride a bike.

Acumenoop, there is no need for your post to be deleted on my behalf. I can take it.

I don't pretend to know about every disability, and I understand what you are saying about what the NHS or SS would and wouldn't provide.

But in trying to explain my opinion when I have been attacked for it, I went into a little imaginary world of my own where people get what they need. I am well aware that the system as it is now doesn't work for its users, but that doesn't mean I can't imagine what it would be like if things were funded differently.

I take your point about my way being seen as patronising, but that is about attitudes towards something an nothing else. It shouldn't have to be that way. My imaginary perfect solution is no more patronising than having to apply for DLA in the first place.

"My imaginary perfect solution is no more patronising than having to apply for DLA in the first place."

It is a bit actually, because it presupposes that disabled people and/or their carers need somebody else to supervise the actual details of how their money is to be spent: this is not something that is required for e.g. child benefits, where it is assumed that you can give the parent the freedom to spend the money in whatever way they perceive will benefit the child.

It would also hugely increase the work burden of the disabled person: instead of having to spend a day or two a year filling in your forms, you would end up having to do so every time you wanted to make a purchase above the bare minimum.

A bare minimum wage is that it is what a person with no additional needs is expected to be able to live on: being a disabled person is often more costly- which is why we have the DLA.

Dawndonna, I am not suggesting that you are not capable of deciding. I'm saying that you decide, you explain in simple language why you need something, you get given it. Its not rocket science.

Don't you think you need more than what you already get?

If there was a system that could show that every expense made was as a result of someone's disability, there could be less fraud and people would get what they need. They could still have choice.

Of course no one would want to be in a position to have to do that, but I know I would rather become disabled in a system where I could get what I need, rather than one where I get given a set amount of money and that has to do whether or not it's enough.

I can't even get near some of the stuff on this thread. But all this talk of nmw being the top whack for disabled peoples benefits income I find particularly insulting. I struggle with income at the best of times-the debates about "I work hard I earn my £100000 or whatever" don't swing it for me. Salaries aren't just about work and worth - they are a supply and demand thing. The really high salaried are paid to those who have a niche talent. Which no doubt they've worked hard to hone. So count yourself lucky if your particular talent is in particular demand. But I digress. If the system were fair and about earning and worth, people who have to put up with the pain, frustration, prejudice and inconvenience of a disability have IMO "earnt" a whole lot more than the nmw. The system can't pay that much because it doesn't have it. And how exactly would limiting benefits reduce genuine claimants? You either are disabled and can't work or you're not. Like others have said, if it seems that attractive, get yourself a disability.

Here is a top tip: Steer clear of hypotheticals when having a conversation with people who are actually living your what-ifs. This is our real life. This really happens to me; it's not a hypothetical scenario. DLA has really been abolished. PIP is really coming in.

And the what-ifs and hypotheticals and casual opinions of people like you become the policies and papers and protocols I navigate. That is the reality of being a "vulnerable person". You live perched on a ledge over a huge abyss. It's always there. It's not hypothetical.

IUse, cory makes an excellent point about having to fill in endless forms for your scheme. Do you know how completely exhausting and utterly shit it is to fill in the DLA forms as it is - to have to lay out every detail of your life. It brings it home how bad things are compared to normal lives.

To have to fill out more forms to get things that you consider luxuries - do you know what, people just wouldn't bother. They'd be too exhausted. Too downtrodden. Their self respect ever more worn away by having to ask for things that most people take for granted. Any vestige of self sufficiency grabbed away from them. They would stop bothering. And go more into their shells, live more in their four walls only, become trapped. Because it would all just be too much.

Just realised my post was replying to a post on DLA and not the post I intended to comment about which was that people on 'normal/other benefits get £50 a week spends.'

My apologies - people who are disabled need a bit extra to pay for equipment etc so a bit more money makes sense.

But as I'm here - please stop insulting OP - turning to insults, especially personal ones IMHO means you can't argue your case eloquently enough, (whether you are right or not) and apart from that it is just plain rude and childish - if your DC's did it I bet you would be ashamed so please dont so it yourselves!

Perhaps I should have stayed away from hypotheticals, it was only done to try and explain that I am not all evil just because of the one sentence post I made earlier.

There's no need to assume that my life is a million miles away from the reality you describe just because I have ideals and don't automatically subscribe to the train of thought that sees all benefits as something that should be increased.

Madhair, that certainly wouldn't be my intention. I don't see why they can't just send round two well trained people with experience to go through the DLA form as it is. Personal visits would give a much clearer picture than a standard form that is supposed to cover all eventualities.

But no doubt that's me wanting disabled peoples privacy to be invaded or some such bollocks.

I actually don't believe you are a 24/7 carer or that you are quadriplegic and living on the poverty line. If you are, come out and say it, but I think that is a lie.

Sorry if you are, but I know a lot of people who are carers and I've never met a single one that thought that more paperwork and more begging panels and more itemising costs would help them. Not a one. It's never happened before.

There's more paperwork just to run DP's life than there is to run my business.

Tbh I think if people post judgemental ill informed guff on the Internet then the realty is that they may well receive insults from those who are heartily offended.

Lecturing those responding sounds a bit prissy. Especially if it is not accompanied by a request that those posting ill informed guff desist.