to think by and large girls are now the preferred gender?

[Bethshine82]

I have noticed a lot since having my son that girls seem to be the gender of choice. We seem to have gone from girls being discriminated against, to them being equal and now we seem to have gone past that to a point where they are now seen as better than boys.

When I had my son several people immediately said I'd have to try again for a daughter and that every woman needs a daughter. When I was pregnant and very sick people said (including midwife) 'typical male causing trouble already.' And on numerous occasions people (friends and strangers) have suggested any undesirable behaviour is due to his gender rather than him being a toddler. Won't sleep? It's because he's a boy. Won't sit still for long? It's because he's a boy. Loves tv and would watch all day if allowed? Typical man.
Even once in a shop when DS was trying to carry milk and bread for me but struggling the shop lady said 'men! Can't do two things at once.'

It really annoys me. How cone girls get to be 'princess' while boys have to be 'noisy' and 'monster' on all the clothes. Actually why is there hardly any choice in boys' clothes come to think of it.

Boys seem to be pushed down right from when they are born and the education system largely favours girls too, especially primary education.

AIBU to let this get to me? Possibly I am over sensitive but it does seem to be that girls are now predominantly favoured over boys.

I love boys, so uncomplicated but as they are becoming teenagers I am struggling with three big males in the house. Some female company would be nice but if I had a mini me then that would be a bloody nightmare so I should be grateful for the stench, farts and occasional whack that my boys inflict on me! Sigh...

This is the most annoying thread ever

This is (just) 2012. Can we not let go of these absurd outdated stereotypes? it is statistically impossible to draw any conclusion about gender either a) from having two or three (or 4,5,6,7,8,9, 10) children - the sample is way too small or b) because it is impossible to control for cultural pressures, preconceived ideas and other biases.

And, as the gran of a seriously disabled child, just for God's sake be grateful for having a child of either gender that can walk, run, talk, see, hear and be lucky enough to have the ability to get into mischief, be naughty, bitchy, loud or even obnoxious. Being picky about wanting a boy or a girl is beyond horrible. And no, I don't care if you flame me about this....

I'm not specifically talking about stereotypes, although I do believe there can be some truth in them, I was more just wondering if others had also found that in general girls seem to be favoured over boys. By which I mean it seems more acceptable to be negative towards a boy than a girl, just like IMHO it is more acceptable to make negative comments about men than women. Sometimes I just wonder if equality has gone a bit too far in some respects and sometimes boys get a bit of a raw deal. Girls in education are doing very well, which is great, yet many of our boys are struggling.

I post this on every by vs girl thread and its generally not commented on so I'll say it one last time and then let it drop...

There is a fairly obvious feminisation of western society when it comes to children. The qualities that are deemed to be more feminine are valued - sitting and playing quietly, reading, drawing etc and "masculine" behaviour is often frowned upon - playing loudly, rougher play etc.

In fact in the western world an estimated 85% of adopters initially request a girl. Boys are significantly harder to place particularly once they are past the cute baby stage (around 2). A BME boy past the cute stage can be very hard to place.

At some point between 16 and 21 this feminisation mysteriously morphs into sexism. And no don't ask me how that happens, I've no idea

But there is undoubtedly a significant preference for/approval of girls.

kewcumber that makes me sad for all the little boys who don't find homes.
In my circle of friends I am the only one without a dd, so perhaps that it why I feel as I do. My friends mostly only have girls. I did have one friend (who u cut all ties with) who had two girls and a boy and the way she treated the boy was noticeably different to how she treated her girls. She said (this is not a word of a lie) that she often smacked her boy as boys need a firm hand whereas she would never dream of hitting her girls. Her eldest daughter was such a pain too, way more difficult than her son, probably because she was allowed to be like it. When she got pregnant for a third time she said that if the baby was a boy she was leaving it at the hospital. She said this in front of her son. I've had to stop seeing her as it made me so cross.

But yes kewcumber I suppose part of my post relates to the fact that society now seems to value typical female qualities over typical male ones.

I agree, some people have been really bloody rude about my scrumptious baby DS. He is my child, not a gender (IYSWIM).

One of my cousins in Australia was pregnant with boy/girl twins and even though she was completely neutral about genders, she was congratulated by many for being 'so lucky' to be getting one of each at the same time.

As it was the twins were stillborn at 32 weeks. All that matters is a healthy baby.....

Kewcumber, just because you post it a lot, doesn't make it true. I don't think society is feminised at all, not in any way that counts. You think this because you are female. Most men would disagree.

I asked a friend of mine whose wife was pregnant what he wanted a boy or a girl. He told me he was quite happy with either as long as it was...

his.

I got the opposite from exMIL while going through a string of miscarriages after DD1 was born. ('Don't worry, you'll have a boy' [grrrrr]) As it turned out, I did. DD1 has never really forgiven him or me but that's another story. DS turned out to be the older brother of three younger sisters. He lost a wad of chewing gum in DD2's hair while bestowing a kiss on her one day in the library and used to play with her little toes in the car. When DD3 was born, DD1 woke him in the morning with the news, followed by 'haHA!'. DS turned to the wall and cried but soon grew to love DD3. When DD4 was born he was resigned to his fate. No end to the comments from exMIL as the DDs were born one after the other. exMIL ended up with 17 grandchildren, only four of whom are boys. She still hasn't got over it.

I don't think their school really knew what to do with boys. Reading was the big divide between the sexes and among them. Reading was really strenuously emphasised, but nothing was done to make it appealing to the boys between the ages of 5 and 11 or to find out what was keeping the struggling girls from reading enthusiastically. They read books like Little House on the Prairie and others with girls as the main characters in class and had projects to do that emphasised art/craft interpretations instead of oral presentations. He loved the Greek myths and legends though. I think the boys in the school fell into two camps - high achievers and low, whereas there were many more girls grouped somewhere in the middle. I agree with Kewcumber that school classrooms are feminised environments where what is assumed to be feminine qualities are emphasised. I think this shortchanges all students, boys as well as girls. I also think that British schools expect far more focus on academic skills at far too young an age and that this works against a lot of boys.

Throughout school, DS's favourite subject was gym. He turned in the bare minimum homework to pass English, History, etc. When it came to maths as school went on, there were more boys than girls in the advanced set however, and imo some didn't deserve to be there; I suspected that they got the benefit of the doubt in maths and that girls got the short end of the stick. I think boys are encouraged to think of themselves as 'mathematically brained' more than girls are, and that this has an effect on how boys perceive literature and the humanities ('girls' subjects'). When DS was faced with the necessity of getting excellent grades across the board (in university in the US) in order to get into pre med, he managed to read and write like a trooper.

There is a part of me that doesn't want to agree with gender essentialism but another part of me that says boys in general don't get a fair shot at school as they are currently set up, especially in the youngest classes. The part of me that doesn't agree has the thought of this report and the studies behind it that indicate that working class Catholic boys do better than working class protestant boys in NI schools, the result of differences in the communities' male cultures and differences in expectations of employment.

I have two boys.

I haven't really encountered this that much but that could be be because I am quite loudly positive about having boys so if people are thinking it they keep it to themselves.

With DS1 I didn't care either way, with DS2 I had a preference for a boy that was mostly due to not wanting to buy new clothes but also because I felt very confident as the mother of a boy.

But I am excellent mother and would have been great for a girl as well.

I have many sisters and a couple of brothers, to be honest I am closer to my sisters now, I think because we have that shared bond of mothering and my boys consider them as second mothers.

The current crop of kids is all boys, of slightly different ages, which is very handy for clothes swapping.

sportsfanatic I really enjoy your posts!

I completely agree with all previous posters who point to parental expectations. Studies show that the way we speak to and treat babies is heavily dictated by gender. If we speak far more frequently to girl babies how can we be surprised that they generally express themselves verbally rather than physically and are more inclined to succeed in language based humanities subjects?

I was very close to my mother. She always wanted me to have a daughter. DD1 was born after her death, on 11 November, a day of remembrance and also the anniversary of my mother's memorial service. I can't imagine not having a daughter - I think it would have mattered to me a lot if I hadn't.

I read somewhere.... WHAT SCREWS US UP THE MOST IS THE PICTURE IN OUR HEAD HOW ITS SUPPOSED TO BE. for me so true!

I was so grateful to be pregnant again after ds, honestly didn't care what gender, never felt like I needed to have a dd just a healthy baby, but once I started (in response) telling people it was another boy the barrage of comments as per this thread began and the picture in my head changed... All because I wanted to be accepted, not pitied.... :( I am a strong person but there is only so much I can take, so emotional when you love your child so much and others say stupid things like "never mind try for a third", "will you try for a girl?"blah blah! Grrr

So to all those people out there who think it's ok to make unsolicited comments about the gender of my children, your preference etc FUCK OFF! Why do you care what gender i have other than the fact it makes you feel smug or superior of what you perceive as having the perfect family? Think before you speak! They are MY children they are loving, gorgeous, smart, funny, healthy, noisy, chatty, inquisitive... They are children fgs whatever the gender!

The family I have created with my dh is how it's supposed to be!

I think this is interesting and I think what kew says is true.

There are huge gender imbalances occuring in parts of the world, particularly in parts of Asia where sex selection is heavily weighted in favour of boys.

However I read an article recently (not sure where) that suggests that Western societies are using sex selection to choose girls, with a noticeable gender imbalance occuring in California.

Gender imbalances are worrying and should be addressed by society, which is why this thread has the potential to be interesting.

One point I would add to kew's post is that the sexism appears to be changing according to an article I read in the Economist (and too late for most of us). It has long been established that females outperform males in the education system but in the last 2 years (I think), female graduates have started to earn more than their male counterparts. Of the reasons pointed out one is, as mentioned, males falling behind in the education system, and the other is the determination of females to get their careers off the ground and to a high level before the onset of parenthood, when the real discrimination kicks in.

two4one "There is a fairly obvious feminisation of western society when it comes to children"

I can back up what I said with evidence that when given an ability to choose (eg adoption) western parents massively prefer girls and the evidence is that education at the youngest ages is geared towards the way on average girls learn better.

Maybe I am misinterpreting those facts.

I have a boy - my opinion is that I love him and that I would love a girl just as much and each child should be treated as an individual.

My opinion is also that there is some horrendous sexism in the world - as I also said.

I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with what I say - but it would be a more interesting discussion if you could explain what exactly I said that is wrong and why.

(Oh and I don't post it "a lot" maybe 3 times in the last year)

I have one of each. On the whole I found there were more negative comments about having a girl: "Oh but boys are so straightforward, so honest, so uncomplicated. Girls are devious, they're bitchy. Oh I'm so glad I had boys."

Not that it bothered me, I always thought any child I had would grow up to be an individual.

A lot of people seemed to be disappointed FOR me when I had ds2. Almost all of the visitors asked "when will you go for a girl?". Go for a girl? Is such a thing possible? No! Also I was 24 with a 5 year old and newborn at the time. Another baby was the last thing on my mind.

I love having two boys. I'll be a little sad if I never have a dd, but please do not feel sorry for me. My sons are lovely, affectionate and intelligent children.

I do hate the fact there is little choice in boys clothes though.

FWIW, i have two gorgeous DSs and have never had any negative comments, bar one - a woman said to me she wouldn't have gone for 3 kids if she'd had two boys already (she had two girls, so tbh was based on stereotypes, rather than experience of what having all boys is actually like).

It's bizarre, the whole gender stereotyping, and it is getting much much worse.

Worse than expecting little boys to be raucous, straightforward, messy, aggressive and un-academic is the expectation of the little pink fairy princess who is sweet as pie but also becomes a devious little bitch when she hits around 9.
Both stereotypes are harmful to both sexes, and we have to resist them when we have kids.

My ds has "male" traits, but he also has lots of "female" traits.

Pre-puberty I really think there are very few differences between the sexes, and those that are there are often magnified by societal expectations.

I am told regularly by my ds (5) that he hates pink and dolls and that boys don't cry.
I haven't taught him that; it started in pre-school and is very pervasive.
Left to his own devices he also spend hours colouring in and playing houses with his dolls action figures!

If I had a girl I would be distraught at the endless tide of pink/purple glittery brainless tat aimed at her.
I mean, sure, when I was a little girl I liked Barbie, and plastic jewellery like the next girl, but I also played with Lego (which wasn't pink) climbed trees, built Go-Karts and obsessively collected Top Trumps racing car cards!

If I was lucky enough to have another child I would be made up to have either a boy or a girl.
My ds would be essentially the same person if he was female, so what difference does it make?

Totally agree with dragontoes. Every word.

4 boys and then a girl here, i encountered lots of 'poor you' with all those boys type comments and there was a huge assumption with preg no 3 onwards that we wanted a girl, we were never bothered either way, we wanted 4 children and then no 5 was our bonus baby! it is lovely having a little girl, the boys all dote on her and i am loving buying pretty but NOT pink clothes, however if i had had 4 girls and then a boy i think it would be just the same. tbh she is now 12mths old and other than the clothes and when i change her nappy there isnt much difference so far, she is just a baby! its the comments from other people etc 'oh you finally got your girl etc that can be a bit wearing but ultimately she is healthy as are my boys and that is what counts.

i do think that within schools etc there is a defnite slant towards girls, ithink the system, particularly the school starting age in the UK is more geared towards girls, but as a parent i am just doing my best to raise my children as individuals regardless of their gender. my 4 boys are all very different in terms of personality and likes and dislikes, you could say that ds2 is a 'typical boy' with his love of football and cars, but ds3 loves fairies and tinkerbell and all things pink and sparkly, its nothing we have done they are who they are and i love them all and their individuality regardless of gender :)

I think you are exactly right OP.

I think the Western world does favour girls - and quite considerably.

I, like another poster feel that amongst all my friends and family gender stereotypes are pretty true to form and my own experience is too.

My own DS is "all boy" and has been since birth - my DD's are quite clearly stereotypical girls.

I can never understand why people deny there are innate differences. As if the ONLY difference between boys and girls are their genitals.
Neither is better or worse.

I have felt quite sad for my DS at times, through the education system I feel is geared up for girls.

When I was a young teenager I was a feminist and was obsessed about how I would raise my daughters (if I had them) to be equal to men.
The reality is I have felt I need to equip my DS with the skills to feel equal to women.

I really don't see how the education system is "geared up for girls". How so?

Of course there are innate differences between the genders, but far, far fewer differences than there are similarities.
Lately all we seem to focus on are the differences, and forget that people are, actually, people with all the individual quirks and preferences that entails,whatever their age.

I"ve not noticed the education system being geared up for girls either.