To ask if you make assumptions by name?

[manicinsomniac]

Okay, so in theory, we are all decent, reasonable people who would never assume that the name a family gives a child has any bearing on them as people.

But, in practice, - do we make those assumptions?

A lot of threads in the baby names topic talk about 'chavvy' names, names for people with low IQs, the idea that you can predict a child's future success based on their name etc. It all sounds very nasty and judgmental but it got me thinking as to whether we can avoid doing it and what it could mean for our children if we do.

I have only been a teacher for 5 years and have only taught in two schools - but they were very very different schools and yes, they did have very different 'popular' names. Both schools have lots of Amys, Lucys, Daniels and Sams but at the first school I taught at I had Dillon, Declan, Damon, Chelsea, Kelsey, Kasey and Jamie-Leigh. In the school I now teach at I have Annabelle, Beatrice, Georgina, Harriet, Sebastian, Frederick, Rupert and Henry.

Do you think we have names that are firmly seen as 'chavvy' or 'posh' as well as the huge mass of names that are obviously in the middle? And, if we do, do we run the risk of a child being perceived as 'a poncy twat' if we call him Rupert or 'a scuzzy chav' if we call them Jamie-Leigh. (By the way, those hideous classist terms are in inverted commas for a reason, I would never actually use them!!)

When you named your child did you consider what other people might think of the name or just go for what you liked?
Do you make assumptions about people based on their name choices?

I think that most people do and I suspect that I do myself if I'm very honest. And I think it's a bad and potentially quite damanging tendency. But I'm fully prepared to be told IABU.

I also work with people that could be described as such, and much worse. They mostly seem to be self aware.

See I'm now wondering if op taught my cousin! Jamie Leigh isn't a very common name

I do tend to link names with children I have worked with in the past, which made it harder.
One of the ladies from my work assumed I was married to a black man because my dd1 name is African American!

Olivia, Arabella (Bella), Rupert and Rory

HTH

Oh dear - and you can't see that your assumptions are quite offensive. You are deliberately misunderstanding and/or misquoting me. If you have to resort to that to feel you've 'won' whatever sad little argument you think you're having, fair enough. I'll pander to your insecurities. Accuse me of whatever you want. Hope it helps you to feel better about your life.

wow. you are quite a ball and anger aren't you.

I offered my opinion, It differes from yours. Is that an argument? In my world it is a discussion.

I have no opinion of you, I don't know you.

Anger? No, quite amused actually.

calm down ladies

Fair enoughTalkingbackmonday. It's less than a week to Christmas, and only 8 days till I'm off work and away for a break. Let's all chill.

Sorry about the missing space and extra l.

well quite.

My DCs sound like the toffiest of toffee but I just really loved the names.

I've already said I think it's fine to type on here but not fine to actually say to somebody. Others think the opposite and I'm sorry about that. Report the post if you like but there's nothing new I can say.

talkingbackmonday - Arabella is one of my favourite names, I think it's gorgeous. Always best to go with what you love, be it Latoya or Araminta.

ds was going to be called Arabella i love the name (since primary school when we sung arabella have you seen my new umbrella) :)

ds nursery has children from various backgrounds the children who are off to a very famous and very expensive prep school next year have the made up names that some on here would call chavvy

how sad that so many do judge by name

My son is Xavier Raphael - we just chose the name as we argued and argued and I wasn't allowed my choice so let husband choose and then added a astardly middlename myself liked it. Then we moved to America. Apparently it sounds very hispanic and so will likely adversely affect his chances in later life. I had no idea. I also think it is terrible that because a name looks like it might contain clues of ethnicity, it can hold someone back. I was too naive when I named my kids - I had no idea racism was allowed in job interviews.

Of course people judge. But a lot of people here are coming from an achingly middle-class and rather stupid position, which is that being identifiable as a chav is a bad thing.

I am sure that anyone who knew my city well could probably guess our postcode and possibly take a stab at our household income and education from our DCs names. That's why we chose them - they reflect who we are.

Why should the parents of Dest'nee-Mae not have made the same choice? Why is it not a completely legitimate choice to identify yourself and your children as members of your social group by choosing to call them Jaxon rather than Ptolemy?

An interesting question and kept me up until 3am!

I can't say much that hasn't already been said but I think people do judge names and it's silly because depending where and even when you are they have different connotations. I know when we named our eldest his nan was very against it as one of her bridesmaids had had that name and was a little brat but our daughter is far from that.

I think people have misunderstood you. I took it that you have collated some of what's been said on here before and asked if people really feel like that? The list of names is nothing. You've not listed a class but just given examples of how you could lable those names from your past experience.

The most common name for a CEO or director in the UK is - "Michael" - timeless, classless, trancends racial or religious connotation.

I judge too and I am normally right. Sorry, but true.

Xavier Raphael is a beautiful name.

My ds has what has now become a very popular and as I understand it quite 'chavvy' name. It wasn't common when he was born, although it is in tune with the general 'old man/lady' trend (dh is a historian and wanted to call ds after a great English king). Now we live in Canada where it is really not used much at all and we've had both misspellings and occasional 'isn't that a girl's name' comments. However much much fewer class connotations, at least in our town.

I think that we all make judgements about names because it's often the first thing we know about someone, and most of us build a mental picture of what we think the person might be like. the important thing I guess is to remember that that picture will often bear little resemblance to reality.

People shouldn't- but there is proper actual research that says they do. I think it's in Levitt and Dubner's Freakonomices- they gave teachers work to mark with different types of names on it and some names got lower marks than others.

I can't be the only person who does q slight double take every time I hear that very serious foreign correspondent on Rqdio 4 called Kylie? Or am I?

lisaro

If you read my earlier posts you would see I hate the word chav

kladdkaka - I am reading a book called Girls Like Us at the moment. It is about female songwriters. Anyway it says in it that Chelsea Clinton was named after the Joni Mitchell song Chelsea Morning.
Anyone with true class would never judge someone based on a name.

"Anyone with true class would never judge someone based on a name."

Absolutely. So if you can mqke sure your child spends the next 80 years only interacting with people who have true class, then go ahead and call him or her anything you like!

Chav comes from Charva (sp) which is a gypsy word for a young man.

I dont think you should use the word unless you are likely to be described as one. So I am ok I reckon.

Isnt there a phrase or something to describe that 'I judge and I am always right' thing? Like a self fufilling prophesy or something?

'Urgh that child is called D'onate. I bet he is a nightmare and his mother is agressive'
Pulls own child away from little D'onate. Tells them a bit too loudly not to play with him. D'onate gets upset, mother gets upset.
'You SEE! I knew it! Agressive and the child has no boundaries'

This is particularly damaging in schools where a child can be marked down on the first day their name appears in the register.

Take my DS. Deeply 'chavvy' name.
As a family, walking down the street, we could well be judged as chavs, particularly if I have thrown on a trackie for the school run.
Actually I didnt name him, we are a working family with a keen interest in learning and community.
DS's school pretty much assumed his lack of learning was down to his family environment. Thought we didnt have books. Told us perhaps we could buy a few, if we could manage it

Of course I cant prove it. But I firmly feel that the low expectations of my child, based on his name (perhaps), where we lived, our social class etc meant the school didnt bother to investigate his significant SNs until I forced them.

You CANNOT judge someone accurately based on their name. It is a ridiculous notion and a dangerous one if you happen to be in a position of any power.

I judge. But am happy to be proved wrong...