Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think people shouldn't be so selfish

176 replies

Christmasishere · 16/12/2011 18:51

I was listening to the radio the other day and a Mother was talking about how she chose her career/studying over living with her son.
She fell pregnant in her last term of Uni, had the baby, then broke from the Father. She wanted to do a masters in Leeds (or somewhere...can't quite remember) but could not get childcare/appropriate in the city where she wished to study. So, the child went to live with his Father in, say, Birmingham. Her career took her to Norfolk, she found the distance very hard and couldn't think of things to do with her son once she got there. The distance and work commitments meant she didn't see her son much at all while he was growing up.
Now, to most people, she pretends that she doesn't have a child as it hurts her too much to think that she doesn't have a good relationship with her son. She mentioned nothing about how much this would have hurt her son, knowing that his Mother chose work, money etc over raising him, and not choosing to live closer at least.
I had my child young, whilst not being with my now Husband very long. We made sacrifices, but thats just what we did - there was no option - we were a family. Because of the way we threw ourselves into being a family and made it work, we are a very happy little family. Yes, there were things I wanted to do - travel, start a career etc but, it is not our child's fault they came along at a time in our lives when we weren't settled so why should he suffer?
I am not saying everyone should marry someone and set up home with partners they don't want to. All I think is that a career and life dreams that do not fit around the children should come second to raising the children that were brought into this world through no choice of anyones other than their parents.
I just think this women is truly selfish and raising our children should come above all other aspects of life.

OP posts:
Pantofino · 17/12/2011 00:03

Ok - so child is brought up by dad. Great. But yet there are concerns that there is no MOTHER figure......So dad does the hard bit and mother is swanning off somewhere. Hero status for dad, and condemnation for the mother "who should have found another way".

Reverse the situation, and......it sounds, well normal.....Dad has buggered off but wants convenient contact, Mother feels put upon and pissed off...

LRDtheFeministDragon · 17/12/2011 00:04

Well, I guess I feel strongly about it because for all the few women who do act selfishly in this situation (and maybe then they are the ones who speak out afterwards, feeling guilty?) a lot more feel pushed to do things they don't want to, and don't speak out about the guilt.

I don't know if she acted selfishly - I keep trying to find the radio broadcast but I can't, so maybe if I heard I would know more.

I really, strongly feel that all women should get the chance to let the dad be the main carer and pursue a career if that's what works for them as a family. It seems as if it didn't for her and she is sad about it.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 17/12/2011 00:05

Oops ... my last was to feminine but I posted slowly!

AyeFartedOnSantasLap · 17/12/2011 00:11

Fucking hell. What a car crash of a thread.

Bollocks you would have started this if it were a bloke doing the leaving.

xyfactor · 17/12/2011 00:17

Maybe this thread shows that there's no worse critic of a woman than another woman?

CurlyhairedAssassin · 17/12/2011 00:22

God, yet another thread turned into a feminist issue.... Hmm

lisaro · 17/12/2011 00:24

My ex was forces - are you going to slag off people in that occupation?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 17/12/2011 00:24

Come on curly ... were you honestly expecting that a thread about a working mum was somehow not a feminist issue?

lisaro · 17/12/2011 00:25

there are women that do that job - them? (sorry - posted too soon.)

CurlyhairedAssassin · 17/12/2011 00:32

I'm a workin mum, LRD, and there is a big difference between me and the radio woman. I mean, come ON!

Anyway....not much point commentating on something we haven't actually listened to really so I'm going to leav you to it.

Smile
LRDtheFeministDragon · 17/12/2011 00:34

Fair enough. Smile

Pantofino · 17/12/2011 00:35

Of course it is a feminist issue as op describes a WOMAN who lives her dream whilst the MAN does the parenting.

Feminine · 17/12/2011 01:02

LRD I am all for Dads being the main carer,no problem for me at all on that front...my own DH was a SAHD for a bit when our first son was small.

I also think in most other examples I wouldn't have even commented IYSWIM?

I agree, that without my listening to the interview I should probably reserve opinion Wink
Have to say though, that if a man had done it , it still wouldn't be thought of as cool by anyone...

MayaAngelCool · 17/12/2011 11:35

Wittsend (sorry, I'm catching up on thread so am referring to your first post from yesterday evening!), there are two significant differences between your situation and that of the woman in the OP:

  1. you know your situation is not ideal. And because of that, I am sure that:
  2. you stay in regular contact with your kids.

The same goes for the other mothers I know, who have done the same as you, to send money back home to keep the family going. That, IMO, is about sacrificing your wishes to help your family. The woman in question realises now that she needed quite a bit more of your attitude.

I do feel for her, having to live with this mess and level of deep regret. It was a bad series of decisions, with regretful results

SolidGoldStockingFilla · 17/12/2011 11:50

FFS no wonder the woman didn't tell people she had a child. SHe would have spent her whole life dealing with intrusive questioning and verbal abuse from fuckwits, as demonstrated on this thread.

MayaAngelCool · 17/12/2011 11:53

Panto, you are right to say that this is exactly like the situation of families where the men bugger off and rarely see the kids. The bastards, how dare they treat their kids and partners that way? And it's no more acceptable just because it's a woman doing the buggering off.

There is a great deal of hysterical hypersensitive kneejerking on this thread. No wonder some posters have chosen to, ahem, bugger off! Wink

LRDtheFeministDragon · 17/12/2011 13:04

When I hear a radio interview with a man who says he's racked with guilt because his son was cared for by the child's mother while he studied then worked, and when people comment on this story as an incredible and rare example of selfishness ... then it will be exactly like the situation where men bugger off and rarely see the kids.

I don't think I would have done what this woman did, and I think it's unusual - if it had been the other way around people would have been all over the thread saying poor bloke, he felt so guilty, I bet we can find a shedload of reasons for his decision. But then, the thread wouldn't even have been started because it doesn't make the news when a man chooses career over children, only when a woman does.

Jux · 17/12/2011 13:24

Don't really understand why the father and child could not have moved to Leeds, or wherever it was, when she got her place there. Why couldn't they move around with her? Women are expected to do that when their husband's get a job which requires moving.

Feminine · 17/12/2011 13:56

jux that is an interesting and very valid argument.

In this case though, I really don't think it would have made much difference?

MayaAngelCool · 17/12/2011 20:08

Jux, if you split up with your partner, would you follow their job round the country? I wouldn't, that's for sure.

LRD, what comments other people make about this woman's choices have no bearing on the plain facts of her situation, so I'm afraid your point is illogical. What she did is the same as what buggering-off fathers do. What others think of it is their business.

I do agree with your earlier point that it would be informative to hear the Father's perspective. I wonder if WH will approach him for interview?

Jux · 18/12/2011 13:01

Sorry, missed or forgot that bit (found the op quite hard to follow) and was answering what seems to be a hypothetical situation anyway.

No I wouldn't follow my ex-partner around the country.

If it were a man following his best path to education and a career, no one would question this, and his sorrow at missing huis child's growing years etc would be expected (or at least hoped for). He would probably be applauded for admitting to it.

marmiteandjam · 18/12/2011 13:29

My ex-husband was in the Navy and there are many other men who are in the forces and they often go away for months at a time and don't see their children. Have they chosen their career over their children?? I don't think so. It's always when women choose to do similar then they are vilified. I'm not saying that what she did was right but it's just that when men go off and leave their families to follow their dream jobs people don't seem to raise an eyebrow but when the situation is reversed people think it's awful.

hatebeingmummy · 18/12/2011 13:41

What I think is that we all have a hard enough timne beating ourselves up over whether or not we're good parents. If anyone could listen to this one person's story about leaving her son while she studied, plus how she is very much paying the price now, and conclude from that that they are a selfish individual who should be vilified then I think that they need to learn about compassion.
There are people who outwardly sacrifice themselves on the alter of motherhood but who are very selfish people with their own motives.
Maybe the child's father was very paternal and was the best person to raise the child?

MayaAngelCool · 18/12/2011 19:48

Jux, so you must agree, then, that it is unfair to expect this woman's ex to relocate to wherever she wished to live. Also I completely disagree that people would applaud a man for abandoning his children for his career. I have heard such men rightly lambasted on many occasions, and I would be most surprised if you haven't.

Marmite, it's been said already on this thread, but bears repeating: people in the forces who remain in contact with their kids (and I'm sure the vast majority of them do) are not in the same bracket as this woman.

Hatebeing, I agree that this woman needs compassion - and I certainly said as much earlier. At the same time I don't see the problem with discussing other people's actions and decisions; we all do it all the time. Where would MN be without a bit of healthy discussion?!

Jux · 18/12/2011 22:30

Yes Maya, I do. I thought that pretty clear from my last post.

I also think that it's pretty clear that when I said a man would be applauded I was referring to the sorrow at missing his offspring's childhood being expressed.