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Original poster

to think people shouldn't be so selfish

176 replies

Christmasishere · 16/12/2011 18:51

I was listening to the radio the other day and a Mother was talking about how she chose her career/studying over living with her son.
She fell pregnant in her last term of Uni, had the baby, then broke from the Father. She wanted to do a masters in Leeds (or somewhere...can't quite remember) but could not get childcare/appropriate in the city where she wished to study. So, the child went to live with his Father in, say, Birmingham. Her career took her to Norfolk, she found the distance very hard and couldn't think of things to do with her son once she got there. The distance and work commitments meant she didn't see her son much at all while he was growing up.
Now, to most people, she pretends that she doesn't have a child as it hurts her too much to think that she doesn't have a good relationship with her son. She mentioned nothing about how much this would have hurt her son, knowing that his Mother chose work, money etc over raising him, and not choosing to live closer at least.
I had my child young, whilst not being with my now Husband very long. We made sacrifices, but thats just what we did - there was no option - we were a family. Because of the way we threw ourselves into being a family and made it work, we are a very happy little family. Yes, there were things I wanted to do - travel, start a career etc but, it is not our child's fault they came along at a time in our lives when we weren't settled so why should he suffer?
I am not saying everyone should marry someone and set up home with partners they don't want to. All I think is that a career and life dreams that do not fit around the children should come second to raising the children that were brought into this world through no choice of anyones other than their parents.
I just think this women is truly selfish and raising our children should come above all other aspects of life.

OP posts:
Pantofino · 16/12/2011 22:24

Hmmm. My thoughts - plenty of men do this, whether it be going to Afghanistan or working 20 hours a day in the office. I bet they love their children but never feel guilty about their choices. But at the end of the day, you reap what you sow.....

CurlyhairedAssassin · 16/12/2011 22:24

Maybe you're right, LRD. Sad

LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/12/2011 22:26

Well, one thing we can all agree on - it's sad.

Popbiscuit · 16/12/2011 22:35

YANBU. I don't know how anyone could pretend they didn't have a child. Gender is irrelevant.

VivaLeBeaver · 16/12/2011 22:40

Definetly sad, but I don't think selfish. She was maybe very selfless having an unplanned baby that perhaps she didn't want/feel ready for. A lot of women in her situation would have had a termination. She made sure the child was safe and loved by his father. But yes I think its sad that for whatever reason she didn't feel like she could have a relationship with him and you do wonder how much that will affect him as he gets older and thinks his mum wasn't there for him.

I would love to go to medical school and be a Dr. Maybe in 10 years time when DD is older I will but right now there is no way I could as I know that as a med student and a junior Dr I could be placed at hospitals throughout the deanery, some of which are 2 hours away.

However when dd was born I have to say that at first I didn't really have any strong feelings towards her. I know it sounds awful but I can remember thinking that I didn't love her, didn't really feel anything towards her. I don't think I was depressed, it just took a while, only a couple of weeks for maternal love/whatever/bonding to kick in and then I really did love her. But if I'd been in a similar situation to the woman in the OP I could probably have happily walked away to a new course/job/life without too many second thoughts. And then if you're not there with the baby, then maybe that bonding doesn't have the chance to build up?

MrsBradleyJames · 16/12/2011 22:59

Not selfish?

so - she wanted to study a particular course, couldn't get childcare there, so went anyway.

'Her career then 'took her' (eg she chose to take a job) in Norfolk" when this was nowhere near her child

She 'couldn't think of things to do when she saw her son'......?

I mean - good grief - what planet am I on if these life choices are not selfish? They are the very essence of selfish - for goodness sake!!

LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/12/2011 23:05
Confused

She 'wanted' to study a particular course and her career 'took her' somewhere ... sorry, what world do you live in where people can study for free wherever they like, and where millions of jobs line up for you to pick from?

You let me know and I'll be glad to go there.

She was making a career - yes, for herself, but also for herself to support her son. If she didn't want to support him, she could have removed herself entirely from the child's life: she didn't.

MrsBradleyJames · 16/12/2011 23:13

I live in a world where people, if they choose to have a child, work that study around their primary responsibility to look after the child.

My god but people let themselves off the hook easily to do what they want. Poor kids.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/12/2011 23:15

But the child was looked after. By the dad.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/12/2011 23:18

Incidentally ... I live in a world where I need money to feed myself, clothe myself and pay the rent. If she had the money in Leeds, I can see why she had to stay there. I am still curious why the dad didn't move there, but he may have had his reasons.

Feminine · 16/12/2011 23:19

But she didn't particularly do it to support him did she?

She wanted that course , she wanted to live where she did.

I see the poor child as a by-product in this case.

MrsBradleyJames · 16/12/2011 23:23

yes the child was looked after by the dad. So are we so misogynistic (and so lacking in understanding of child development) as to say that the abandonment by the mother doesn't count then? This is so illogical. Because there is a dad, she has no responsibilities as a mother?

Is this how any of you live?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/12/2011 23:23

How on earth do you know that feminine? Confused

TBH, I do not see what is wrong with her wanting to do something that would eventually make a good life for her and her child. If there was an element of choice, IMO that is lovely and great for her.

But plenty of people do not get a choice about where the money is - they have to move to where it is and accept that.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/12/2011 23:24

How is that misogynistic? 'Misogyny' makes hating women ... not thinking that dads make great primary carers. IMO bigging up women by putting down men is just as biased and unpleasant as teh reverse.

GoingForGoalWeight · 16/12/2011 23:27

OP what about parents or single parents of severly disabled children whom have looked after that child for years and can no longer do so, so have no choice to put them in a home? The child might be better off to go into a home if the parent/carer can no longer cope? In that situation i would move away from my childs hometown and pretend i didnt have a child because of limited minded people.

MrsBradleyJames · 16/12/2011 23:30

"a career and life dreams that do not fit around the children should come second to raising the children that were brought into this world through no choice of anyones other than their parents."

Well said, OP.

It's not often I think this way, but I am not reading or posting on this any more - thanking goodness that I am out of step with many of the views on here....staggering the lack of personal responsibility that people think is ok.

MrsBradleyJames · 16/12/2011 23:31

I meant misogynistic because your response completely negates the role of a mother at all. It doesn't matter. There 'was a dad'. Oh, so having a mother or not is as absolutely nothing then.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/12/2011 23:36

Erm, yes ... there was a dad. Call me misogynistic if you like, but I think suggesting that a man cannot ever be as good for his baby as a woman is the truly sexist statement here.

What about gay parents? Are you really saying two loving fathers could not raise a happy, healthy child? Or - god forbid - a man whose wife dies, are we saying that baby is going to fail without a mother?

Aside from breastfeeding, what do you think a woman can do for a baby that a man can't? Or what is it about a man that makes him unable to provide that care?

Feminine · 16/12/2011 23:39

mrsbradley you are not out of step :)

I am talking only about this woman.

Why are all these totally unrelated examples being used?

A woman can be wrong ....alone -it does not negate the rest of the female species, and their families.

LRD I think she acted selfishly, I don't think she made any of her choices for her son...and that is why she now feels guilt...understandably.

MrsBradleyJames · 16/12/2011 23:45

oh god I really am going in a minute but just to answer you - I am saying that BOTH parents have a responsibility to the child. I am saying that when people say "what's the problem, there was a dad" that TO THE CHILD the abandonment by the mother, the knowing that your mother chose to prioritise other things and not YOU does have an emotional, developmental impact. I am saying that just because there is one parent, does not negate the huge impact of the loss or absence of the other. People seem so glib about it.

I can't get why people think that by saying the mother had responsibilities which she neglected then abandoned, I am saying that a dad cannot be a good parent. Of course he can. I am saying that if your mother behaves as in the OP which is what we're discussing, that she is being selfish. Which, on any other planet than this thread, would be a very and completely normal thing to say.

We'll agree to disagree and I'll leave it there - clearly we won't ever agree and I'm very VERY happy about that!

LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/12/2011 23:45

These 'totally unrelated examples' were being used (by me anyway) because I want to discuss the OP, which refers to 'people'.

I don't disagree a woman can be wrong - I just don't see that we can know she was selfish, and I don't see why everyone assumes a baby brought up by the father has been appallingly treated. It happens the other way around all the time.

Why not focus on giving more support to both mothers and fathers?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/12/2011 23:49

Cross post.

I don't think I would ever want to be so hands-off with a child - but I am arguing for better support for mothers so they don't have to be in this position. Clearly she was upset and unhappy about it. Yes, you or I might have made different choices, but she didn't make her decisions without feeling upset.

So why you think that I'm being 'glib' here, I don't quite understand. I just don't like the way this woman is being criticized very harshly - including being accused of not being 'loving' as a mother - for a decision that she has admitted she feels bad about.

I feel awful for her. I don't understand people who can't raise that basic compassion.

xyfactor · 16/12/2011 23:55

Women are taking advantage of the opportunities they have today.
I find absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as all women are offered the same advantages.
I doubt she chose work/uni over her child because she may have taken the only option to support herself and her child.
It's never as cut and dried as it seems.

Feminine · 16/12/2011 23:58

LRD thinking about it...yes, I agree, if she had felt this was her only way forward then I sad she didn't get support.

Its just that (in this particular) case I don't read/see that ...I think she acted selfishly from the get go.

lurkinginthebackground · 16/12/2011 23:59

Well i gave up my career to raise my kids. My dh works but I took a low paid job to fit in around the kids and sometimes I wonder what life would have been like if I had put my career first. I feel I wouldn't always be skint as I am now. So I don't know what the answer is .