to not want to give £20 to the school

[PresentsRibbonsAndMerrySantas]

the school dd1 has just started [well in sept] has asked twice now for this.
please contribute to our school voluntary fund, this fund will allow us to contine to offer as many school trips as we currently do and offer support to families, for example cannot afford uniform etc, we are asking for a £20 donation per family.
now don't get me wrong, if it was for paying for trips through out the year and for things for the school, i would with out even thinking about it, but its the part were they will help low income families for ie uniform, now we are a low income family but because dp works we have to struggle, which is fine, but the problem i have is i know a lot of families who would be classed as families in need of help and they would think it funny and big that they have managed to get free school uniform etc from the school, so why should i have to pay for these people, i know a friend of mine would and does trys to get everything for free and it really pees me off, she has more dispossable income than we do and she don't work [we rent so don't have a morgage] i just think, that if the school worked out what they get they would be surprised, ie no council tax to pay, no rent, no persciptions, free school meals, half price school bus pass the list goes on and now the school expect and yes i know they have said its voluntary but this is the second reminder and they know who has paid and not, for families to hand over £20 so they can have free school uniform and other help.
aibu in not paying or should i just pay
oh and i don't mean everyone on benifits is the same, i am on about the ones i know, you know the ones, large screen tvs, smoke drink flash the cash, new phones, but don't work!!!!!

I think if parents are getting benefits for a child and failing to clothe their child then it needs looking into by social services and by the benefits agency. The whole point of benefits for children such as child benefit and child tax credits is so that the child can be fed and clothed.

I think it's unfair of the school to expect parents who are doing their best to clothe their children, and who might be in financial difficulty themselves, to subsidise others who are making the wrong choices in how they spend their money.

You're being utterly hysterical WibblyBibble. Noone on benefits is (or should be) so poor they cannot afford £4 for a pair of school trousers from Asda. We're not living in Victorian times any more.

Yep, but until then what happens to the children? Kids can be cruel, and pick up on the scruffy, smelly ones pretty quickly. Which is why at the school I worked at staff ended up buying essentials with their own money, uniform, breakfast, deoderant etc. This is a voluntary fund, those who can and want to can help and those who can't or won't don't have to.

Honestly, just tell the school you cannot afford to donate to the fund or just ignore the letter. They will not think anything of it and you have nothing to feel bad about.

Can I just bring up the point about taxpayers and people paying taxes. Some benefits are taxable. For your convenience I have copied and pasted this from direct.gov.uk

*How benefits are taxed

Some social security benefits count as taxable income and others don't. It's important to understand which do and don't count for tax purposes - to make sure you pay the right amount of tax.

Taxable benefits

If you're a Self Assessment taxpayer, you'll need to make sure that you include any taxable benefits you're getting in your overall income. The most common taxable benefits are:
Bereavement Allowance
some Incapacity Benefit payments - not taxable for the first 28 weeks
some Income Support payments - not taxable if you haven't signed on as unemployed and you're looking for work
Employment and Support Allowance - contribution-based (if you have paid enough National Insurance contributions)
pensions payable under the Industrial Death Benefit scheme
Carer's Allowance - child dependency additions are not taxable
Jobseeker's Allowance
retirement pension - the State Pension is taxable but, unlike company pensions, it's paid to you without tax being taken off so you need to tell your Tax Office you're getting it
Statutory Sick Pay
Statutory Maternity Pay
Widowed Parent's Allowance

Benefits that aren't taxed

There are some benefits that you don't have to pay tax on. The most common benefits that aren't taxed are:
Attendance Allowance
Back to Work Bonus
Bereavement Payment
Child Benefit
Child's Special Allowance
Child Tax Credits
Cold Weather Payments
Council Tax Benefit
Constant Attendance Allowance
Disability Living Allowance
Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance
Guardian's Allowance
Housing Benefit
Incapacity Benefit for the first 28 weeks of entitlement
Income Support - taxable if you're on strike during a trade dispute
Employment and Support Allowance - income-related
Industrial Injuries Benefit
Invalidity Benefit - replaced by Incapacity Benefit from April 1995 but still payable if the invalidity started before April 1995
Maternity Allowance
Pensioner's Christmas Bonus
Reduced Earnings Allowance
Retirement Allowance
Severe Disablement Allowance
Social Fund payments (and interest-free loans) to people on a low income to help with maternity expenses, funeral costs, financial hardship and as community care grants
War Widow's Pension - if you're entitled to a War Widow's Pension and it's not paid to you, or you're paid less because you get another benefit, you may not have to pay tax on some of the other benefit
Winter Fuel Payment
Working Tax Credit

Exemptions for War Widow's Pension and related benefits - learn moreOpens new window

Please note

Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) can be taxable or non-taxable. If your ESA is contribution-based then it is taxable. If your ESA is income-related then it is not taxable.
Some people may migrate from Invalidity Benefit to ESA. If you move from taxable Invalidity Benefit to contribution-based ESA then the income remains taxable. If you move from non-taxable Invalidity Benefit or Income Support to contribution-based ESA then the income will become taxable. If you move to income-related ESA then the new benefit will not be taxable.*

Not everyone lives near an Asda. There are plenty of people live in rural poverty in the UK and this is further complicated by lack of availability to cheaper supermarket type shops

George at Asda have a delivery service tho.

Oh gawd. Here comes Asda to save the day. Clueless.

Business sellers on Ebay frequently sell unbranded or ex store school skirts and trousers, shirts etc. However I do think that secondhand uniform sales in schools are an excellent idea, and they make good financial sense for everyone, not just those on benefits, and for the school too of course. I often donate things DD2 has grown out of to the school, for them to use for spares.

George at Asda have a delivery service tho

Not everyone has a computer or the ability to use one.

wibbly,
It is not about making people go without. The government should give the schools a kick up the arse and stop them forcing expensive uniforms, and trips on parents it is not fair. £35 per school trip is extortionate, and many people with jobs would find that difficult to pay for especially if they have more than one child. Schools need to come up with ways to be more inclusive rather than relying on getting other parents to meet the cost.

peoplesprincess,
I know someone who goes to a state school and the uniform cost a fortune. It had to be a special blazer, jumper, gym kit. their name had to be hand sewn onto everything monogram style, and this was only allowed to be done by the company the school chose (it cost nearly £200 for the whole uniform and will not last their entire school education). This is what I mean when i say to wibble that schools need to sort themselves out and stop trying to act like they are Eton or something by forcing expensive uniforms on parents.

OOur LEA does not give uniform grants; the schools have specific (ludicrously expensive) uniforms. The Governors gave us 50% from the charity fund; we don't contribute to it because we are poor, thus get 50% grant. The whole thing is crazy. Schools could buy in bulk,then give the specific uniform bits to students, we could buy the rest in basic shops like ASda, Matalan, etc

yy Kelly, ours is that expensive too, embroidery, the lot

I think the point is also that often (and I know this is the case at our school) that for instance we only got charged for a coach trip and entrance to a local museum £4 - it undoubtedly costs more than that as they also have to pay public liability and all that and we have a fund that subsidises that to make it affordable, that is why I now pay double to I know someone else can go if they cannot afford it. I posted on page two about being poor myself in the past and asked the OP (or indeed anyone else who is judging people's 'lifestyle choices') if I would qualify for their help. I was not making bad choices I just had no access to benefits and my violent husband left me in a good deal of debt (all in my name of course) - I have been on the bones of my arse and couldn't pay all my rent if the girls needed shoes. coats etc. It was terrifying and small kindnesses meant so much to me and my dcs

I just feel that if you can afford it you should try to help people in your community - it is a small thing to do, it is a small amount of money. If you can afford it then fine and if you cannot then fine but I do feel very strongly it is always good to try and lend a hand to others less fortunate. We can always be judgey about others but really we never know the whole picture,

I agree the government should clamp down on expensive uniforms. Hand embroidered names is ludicrous! Wasn't there something recently on the news about how schools were told they had to have uniform that was freely available from chainstores rather than one stockist?

I thought I'd heard that too.

Most people do have access to a computer or superstore tho. It is the 21st century.

Some people really need to stop being so bloody patronising. Left-wing condescension is just as offensive as right-wing censure.

I would have been previously more than happy to contribute to a £20 voluntary fund. However, when dh became chair of governors at our children's primary, he discovered that in the previous year, the head (he went on sick leave the day the LEA were planning to suspend him and finally resigned the same day the LEA planned to sack him) had without any consultation used around 2k of Parents' Association funds (finally the reason why in all the years I had asked why there were no accounts for PA) in order to subsidise 4.5 children's one week Year 6 residential trip for children parents who had CHOSEN not to pay and not for children whose parents were on a low income, after that I could no longer be confident that the money would be going to those in need. Maybe this is an isolated experience I am judging on, but I am no longer comfortable giving to voluntary funds, not knowing if those in need are actually helped. Every school year, I had previously given school uniform our children had grown out of to the school secretary (not the head thankfully), in order to give to families who were sending their children into school without uniform, even if some of the families were in fact in a financial position to buy but chose not to, at least this way I had control that the uniform would go to those children, instead of money going into a bank account where the money could be used inappropriately.

This benefit scrounger has twins. Their sweatshirts cost £12.00 each. Their pe kit is £20.00. Try finding that all at once. It's always about a pair of £4.00 trousers from Asda.
Fortunately, ds2 is in sixth form now, and doesn't need uniform.

Is a voluntary thing,if you can not afford at the moment then don't do it,but if it was me and i could spare some extra money,i would give .If you can't afford £20 why don't you give what you can,maybe £10. It's always good to help IF you can,if you can't ,then don't worry about it...

YANBU.

I won't contribute directly to the school either. We already pay tax, that pays benefits to those who need it. As you say, some have a greater disposable income than some working families.

Tell them to stop asking you.

You don't need to find it all at once. You must know when your kids are due to move school years in advance- so just save up! It's not bloody rocket science.

Natation, that is awful. No wonder you don't want to give money to the school now.

I would worry that the money would be used for a different purpose other than what was stated on the letter. I have no qualms about helping people less fortunate than myself but would rather, say, pass the DCs uniforms on to people I know that are struggling financially, or pay for a skint friend's child to go on a school trip, than give a sum of money to the school.

My Mum late 90s always got upset every term as the state secondary in late 90s every term asked for £20 per child. The catchment area was very mixed - though did have some richer parts though most of those DC went to the private school further down the road.

School trips ect still had to be paid for on top.

They got a pound in each envelope - per child per term - as it stopped the reminder letters and meant nothing was said to us.

School trips is one thing - paying for someone's else's child's uniform is another.

If they can't afford it, then benefits would make sure they could. Funny how so many people on benefits can afford to drink and smoke! As someone else further up said, if they can't afford to clothe their children, then someone other than more wealthy parensts should be looking out for them.

Loopydoo, I agree.

A family member of DH's is on benefits. She has a son who is 8. She drinks, smokes, has regular night out and buys clothes whilst her son is smelly and unwashed, very overweight as he has a diet of junk food (given a cold tin of beans to eat with a fork out of the tin as a meal) and wears dirty, threadbare clothes. Disgraceful