To expect my ex to see his son on Christmas day FROM MY POINT OF VIEW

[fabsi]

Ok, so yesterday i posted a thread, perhaps in bitterness, to see just unreasonable my ex and his wife are being. I am a lone parent, my ds is 5 and has a good relationship with my ex, his sm and his dcs. My son stays over every saturday night and adores his time with his dad and ss. Last year, my ex "told" me he wouldn't be coming over on christmas day as the year before his dd was "very" upset when he left and didn't want the same happening again this year. I said no way! He did come over in the end, but only stayed 40 minutes. He has asked me a couple of times what to do about bringing the presents over for ds, as he doesn't want to bring them on christmas day, he should have them to open from santa. Fair enough. But i know what's coming. He split with me after 10 years together, he said he'd never loved me and had found someone else. 4 months after we spilt, i found out i was pregnant and i was 6 months gone (no i didn't know, it was never planned and i never thought i could get pregnant as i have a disability and my periods have always been all over the place) I asked for him back several times, but he was in love with his new woman and i was left alone, thankfully i have a supportive family. I had my son and he came to visit every week, at first i didn't want any contact (ds and sm) because i was obviously incredibly bitter. Then sm got pregnant and had a dd and then a year later got married. I admit, i did make access hard, and didn't allow him to take ds out, so he went to a solicitor and i gave in and said ok. I'm glad i did, as ds loves my ex and his family. Yes, i hate her. For taking my man away, but i know she treats ds as one of her own. But, i have heard, from ex's family memebers she doesn't like ex coming over on xmas day and so i think she is the reason he doesn't really want to come over, to keep her happy. THERE IS NO WAY I WOULD EVER ALLOW MY SON over to his dads on xmas day. I am alone and he is all i have. His dad should make the effort to come over here, as many of you have said, his other children have him ALL DAY!!! Sorry for reverse AIBU, but i really do hate that he or she doesn't want to see ds on xmas day. It made me feel better. So, thank you for all your replies.

Wibbly, woah, thats a lot of anger there.

Firstly the ex did not abandon the OP and her son. When he left neither of them knew there was a son.

"...They and their mother whining about him being away..." They haven't, the OP is assuming that.

'tolerate appalling behaviour by men' what appalling behaviour?

and the ex's DW didn't 'shack up with a new father who was cheating on his partner'. They had been spilt up for 4 months at that stage.

as for being left all alone - its been 5 years, why is the OP going to be 'all alone'. It's not up to her ex to sort out her social life / family etc for her.

(oh and christmas isn't just for Christians mate - it never was a Christian festival, the Christians hijacked it!)

Theye wernt married...why work on it?

"[Shock] So her son should be responsible for his mothers mental health?!"

God no! I'm as shocked by that as you are Vivi. That should never happen OP. My PIL's told DH from a very young age that he wasn't allowed to say no to his mother or upset her in any way because she would have a mental breakdown and it would be his fault.

Don't do that to your son OP. Not if you want him to have good mental health of his own.

I agree with Wibbly.

If I was this man, I would not have wanted to "work" on a relationship with such a nasty and spiteful woman. Perhaps he was fed up of her unpleasant ways?
Even if he was cheating, that is all a long time ago and it is not the fault of the child. The adults in the situation should put their own feelings aside and work out a fair situation for the child which allows him to spend special days with both sides of his family.

Wibbly I think you've just alienated an entire message board. What has being a Christian got to do with anything?

I've read the OP's thread. Have you?

I struggle to identify any sociopathic behaviour on the part of the father. Seems ike you've just hijacked a thread and a had a rant that is entirely Of your own agenda.

People said YABU yesterday, Greythorne because they'd been manipulated into doing so and been given the OPs assumptions as facts.

And I'd like to have it on record that I said:
"I'm not sure you're the wicked witch you're being painted to be OP"

Ok so you go out with someone for a few years, then realise it just isnt happening. You break up. You may have met someone before and this may have been the catalyst or you may meet someone after and realise its your life partner. Then months later, the ex phones to say 2blimey, i was pregnant all alog and didnt realise"

Yep, right after the paternity test you would be OBLIGED to go and live forever with the woman while "working on it" hmmmm

Wonders if my Mum is aware she was 'almost invariably' cheating when she fell out of love with my Dad? She must fall into the 'almost' bit of that statement!

Greythorne To be frank, I could't care less what the ex has or hasn't got. That has nothing to do with his relationship with his son. He is being the best father he can be, in the circumstances he is in.

The Op sounds petty, jealous and controlling...sadly her DS's needs are pretty low on her list of priorities. The Op would rather spite her ex and his new wife, than allow her DS to spend a couple of hours at his father's home on Christmas Day, which she believes he would like to do and would enjoy. When her DS is old enough he will run for his father's home and I'd be happy to help him pack. No child should be made a pawn in it's mother's bitterness against it's father.

NoOnes - there was a lot of that going on in MY house too. Creeping round, resentment, game playing, emotional blackmail, never asking questions in case someone got upset, and a point where we were forced to "choose" or be thrown out of the house. It was horrible.

I am a child of a loveless marriage and I can tell you it was a frikkin war zone.

Good point, sick (hmm will have to think of a better abbreviation next time )

Wibbly - you are making a lot of what you are saying up as you go along.

The Op was in a relationship with her ex for ten years - that's long enough to know whether or not it's working. It wasn't for him - he found someone new, ok yes he might have cheated on the OP but he left her before he knew she was pregnant! Yes, he didn't want to come back to her - so what? And I can't see anywhere in the OP that the new woman was pg so quickly - I think you are misreading what the OP has said.

Neither here nor there anyway - the issue here is the father, the son and the OP - the OP's DS loves his father, he loves his DS - they need to resolve a way of seeing each other without the OP being bloody obstructive.

I think the issue of cheating or not is irrelevant. Surely what matters now is the OP's DS, his well being and happiness, which are not going to be served by being made to feel he has to choose 'poor unhappy mummy' over 'misguided daddy and evil sm'.

I'm a SM, DSD's mum has always made Christmas awkward, but we've adapted, DSD loves her mum and her dad, and has expressed sadness that she is never allowed Christmas with us and her DB and DS. Surely the needs of the child should come first?

(oh and just to forstall the normal sm bashing, DH and DSD's mum broke up when she was 1 because DD's mum was shagging her boss, whose wife was still bf their youngest. I didn't meet DH until DD was 3.)

Greythorne - when the OP posted her 'reverse' AIBU yesterday she posted as a woman who wanted to keep her current partner away from his son at Christmas.

Today she is posting as a woman who wants to keep her ex-partner away from his son at Christmas unless he does it on her terms.

It's not really so much of a reverse when you look at it like that.

In both situations you have a man who wants to see his son on Christmas day, but in one he has a partner who resents it and in the other he has an ex who will only allow it on her terms even though Christmas falls on his regular access day.

The OP, as both women, was being unreasonable and it's not having it both ways to tell her so.

YABU. DSD's always spent xmas eve and morning with their mum, DH had a couple of hours with them xmas morning at MIL's (neutral venue, plus meant they got all their pressies), back to mum for xmas dinner then back to MIL's later in the evening when their mum and her family (ie uncles, aunts) started their xmas party.

DSD's choice not to stay. They would ring for us to collect them and TBH 9/10 XW would have been on the phone before them because they would be PITA overexcited. MIL would have a small gathering with DH's uncles and aunts and then DSD's would either come to us or stay at MIL's depending on what they wanted to do. Boxing day with us and as they got older they actually stopped going to their mums after school broke up for the holidays, except for heading over there late xmas eve and back to us or MIL's earlier and earlier every year.

Like the OP XW made such a fuss that DSD's voted with their feet and now have a very strained relationship with their mum. I may not like her for what she put DSD's through regarding access, but I still feel sorry for her. I would be devastated if my DC's would rather be anywhere else than with me as a result of my actions.

Pantofino that sounds awful, I am sorry. I hope you have found a way to come to terms with it and accept you weren't responsible for your parents in any way.

DH still reverts to feeling like a naughty child whenever he sees his parents (rarely now) and they cannot accept that he is a grown man with a family of his own. They are spiteful and manipulative, the pair of them, but DH struggles to accept that he is not to blame for their happiness/unhappiness.

We didn't really have the full story yesterday though did we Greythorne.

OP is not being unreasonable in wanting her DS to see his daddy on Christmas day. But she is being unreasonable in her "my way or the highway" attitude towards Christmas Day access. Many of us asked yesterday why DS did not go to his dad's on alternate Christmas days.

It sounds as if OP and her ex were not married. I do not for one minute suggest that for many people not being married is a valid choice with just as high a degree of commitment as for married people. But for some people not getting married is a choice and a sign of lack of commitment. If OP's ex chose not to commit to her and left her before knowing that she was pregnant and yet has done what he can to be part of that child's life then it is ridiculous to criticise him and call him unChristian for that or suggest that he should have remained in a relationship in which he was unhappy and had not chosen to commit to.

OP I understand where you are coming from but try to stand outside all of this for a moment and see it from all perspectives.

My wife left me a year and a half ago; I stayed in the marital home with our 3 children, now older teenagers, (so obviously not quite the same as your situation). They spent last Christmas with me and this year they will spend all of Christmas day with her. I am 48 now and have never spent Christmas without family, and this year will be the first. I am not looking forward to it but I have been invited to friends which I know will be enjoyable. Oddly enough I have always thought people make too much of a fuss at Christmas, yet now faced with the day without my family I realise how difficult it will be.

But however much your emotions tell you to make things really difficult for your ex, you have to move on.

You have to accept the inevitable ? and create a better environment with your ex for the benefit your son in the future.

How interesting, after my comments yesterday that this has come up. OP this is not about you. Your whole post is how YOU feel about it. What about your son, who is not an extension of yourself but a person in his own right, and the only person with rights in this situation. He has a right to a fair and equal relationship with both his parents, YOU are not allowing your ex access, he has a parental responsibility to do it and your child has a right to time with his other family. YOU have no right to dictate time with HIS father and this is about YOU and YOUR anger, which whilst perhaps understandable is hurting your son immensely. This is extremely selfish and damaging and perhaps YOU would like to take some time to realise that YOU are not the most important person in this equation,your son is and as such YOU have a RESPONSIBILITY not a right to ensure HIS needs are met.

Wibbly he left the op before he knew she was pregnant. He believed, as did she, that she was unable to have children. He did not abandon a wife and child he left a loveless relationship. He may have been a shit about it but that does not mean he should have to be manipulated forever in order to see his child.

Why don't wibbly, greythorne and the op get together for Christmas. That would be a right rocking day of Chirstmas cheer.

and OP you are being unreasonable, however much you don't want to accept it.

Thanks Noones - it wasn't my parents though -but my maternal GPs and my father. We lived with them after my mother died with the view that we would move back with my dad when we were older ie old enough to come home from school alone.

In the end - he started a "serious" relationship and my GM freaked out - in much the way the OP seems to be doing here. She would not let it drop for years and years. Social Workers got involved. The emotional blackmail was terrible. My dad never seemed to step up to the mark and resolve it one way or another - which he should have done.

I wasn't that bothered about where I lived at that point - I just wanted to be left alone. Strangely I am not that close to either of them now. I do "duty" visits. I will be sorry when they are no longer here, but I find it hard to spend time with them. I live in terror that my dd would ever feel this way about me.