To expect my ex to see his son on Christmas day FROM MY POINT OF VIEW

[fabsi]

Ok, so yesterday i posted a thread, perhaps in bitterness, to see just unreasonable my ex and his wife are being. I am a lone parent, my ds is 5 and has a good relationship with my ex, his sm and his dcs. My son stays over every saturday night and adores his time with his dad and ss. Last year, my ex "told" me he wouldn't be coming over on christmas day as the year before his dd was "very" upset when he left and didn't want the same happening again this year. I said no way! He did come over in the end, but only stayed 40 minutes. He has asked me a couple of times what to do about bringing the presents over for ds, as he doesn't want to bring them on christmas day, he should have them to open from santa. Fair enough. But i know what's coming. He split with me after 10 years together, he said he'd never loved me and had found someone else. 4 months after we spilt, i found out i was pregnant and i was 6 months gone (no i didn't know, it was never planned and i never thought i could get pregnant as i have a disability and my periods have always been all over the place) I asked for him back several times, but he was in love with his new woman and i was left alone, thankfully i have a supportive family. I had my son and he came to visit every week, at first i didn't want any contact (ds and sm) because i was obviously incredibly bitter. Then sm got pregnant and had a dd and then a year later got married. I admit, i did make access hard, and didn't allow him to take ds out, so he went to a solicitor and i gave in and said ok. I'm glad i did, as ds loves my ex and his family. Yes, i hate her. For taking my man away, but i know she treats ds as one of her own. But, i have heard, from ex's family memebers she doesn't like ex coming over on xmas day and so i think she is the reason he doesn't really want to come over, to keep her happy. THERE IS NO WAY I WOULD EVER ALLOW MY SON over to his dads on xmas day. I am alone and he is all i have. His dad should make the effort to come over here, as many of you have said, his other children have him ALL DAY!!! Sorry for reverse AIBU, but i really do hate that he or she doesn't want to see ds on xmas day. It made me feel better. So, thank you for all your replies.

I wish my ex would read threads like this sometimes.
I am in the polar opposite situation where I have pretty much begged my ex to have more contact with our dc.

When we first split up we agreed on fortnightly visits (we don't live in the same town anymore) half holidays and alternate Christmas and New Years. Not one of these situations has ever materialised and it is all down to him. He sees them one night every 5 or 6 weeks (or more) twice in 4 years he ahs had them longer in the holidays and I mean like 2 nights instead of one and he has never ever had them at Christmas or new year. At the beginning of this year he did bring up the lack of alternate Christmases and I reminded him that he always phones up somewhere late on in the year and informs me he will be taking them on boxing day for 1-2 nights and then he'll bring them back. He did tell me I got annoyed at him 3 christmases ago as he had said he wasn't taking them at new year as he'd promised and I was only annoyed because I had wanted to go out and get pissed. I did point out that I was 16 weeks pregnant and wasn't planning on going anywhere that year.

I know that I would be gutted to wake up on Christmas morning without them especially as I have another child now but I would do it because it is important to me that they maintain a good relationship with their father. That is not happening and it is not my fault he is screwing it up all by himself.
I keep reminding him there are fathers out there fighting for more access to their dc yet he is happy plodding along doing the minimum possible.

What is going on here!!?? Why does everyone think that because ex doesn't want to see his son on christmas day for fear of upsetting his dd mean that op and her son should accept it? Why does this make op 'disgusting'?

Has the op's ex offered any other solution? apart from leaving presents over before christmas? No he hasn't.

He doesn't sound like he's making much effort to see his son anyway.

Please fabsi correct me if i'm wrong.

blondie - he does want to see his son. Just for the first time in five years he'd like to see his son at his house, where his son's siblings will also be. That is in no way unreasonable of him.

Perhaps if she allowed him to have his saturday night as per usual, he would be quite happy to see his son at xmas, but he doesn't want to be manipulated by this woman.

We don't know that he doesn't want to see his son for fear of upsetting his wife and daughter. We only have the OPs word for that. We don't know if the father has asked about his Saturday night contact.

The disgusting element of her behaviour is that she has, by her own admission, deliberately made it difficult for this man to have contact with his son, and has used the child as a weapon due to her own bitterness.

The thing that pisses me off is that t you posted a thread based on the supposition that your exp's dw holds a grudge over ex seeing ds while pretending to BE her just so you could feel smug when you saw the responses. You are clearly a manipulative person and, you know what? I thonk you DO want to be her.

Try to carve a new life for yourself, the japanese word for crisis and opportunity being the same and all that.

Of course your feelings count, you're an important person just as we all are. But you have to temper your feelings of resentment with reason and respect for your son and what's in his best interests. No amount of being difficult will bring your man back.

Make your mantra: new year, new you.

All the best.

Why can't you split Christmas Day in two: you have your DS on 24th and on 25th until after lunch, and then he goes to his father's house for 25th in the evening until 26th in the evening?

I think you really need to think about this. I can see how the situation has left you bitter but if you carry on like this then one day your son may choose to be with his father and you will be alone. Your son has rights too and you need to be a mum to him by putting his needs first.

My DP would be greatful for an hour on xmas day with his DD, we are not allowed to see her at all that day and are having xmas on boxing day instead. I really don't see a problem with your DS spending a couple of hours at your EX's house so he can spend some of christams with his siblings. Its not even so much about his Dad its about getting the chance to spend a bit of time on a special day with his brother/sister's. Surely having a couple of hours to yourself that day would not be awful?! Also thank for all the info from the steps about alturnate christmas's, we haven't seen DSD on christmas for the 2 yrs that my DP and his EXW haven't been together so I can feel I bit more enpowered in bringing that up with DP, maybe then we can get a bit of time with DSD at christmas 2012! I really hope you put your DS needs before your own at some point, being 'wronged' is no excause to punish your child. Plus 5 yrs is a very long time to harbour such feelings, maybe letting go a bit would help you move on with your life as you sound lonely.

Yabvu op. I do feel your pain though.

I have two dc and they have different fathers I have been a single parent for 4 years and Christmas is the worst time of year. ds's father is great and has lots of time for him all through the year, takes him away, includes him in everything and drives miles several times a week to do things with him.
Ds is going on holiday with him and his sm and his brother all over xmas. I hate the fact that he won't be here but I could never say no as he wants to go and will have an amazing time.

I find it harder with dd's father as he is completely different. I had to fight for him to have her on a weekend (he says this was me just wanting a sitter for nights out), he will not ever have her extra even if it's an emergency, he dumps her with his mother and leaves her most of the weekend. In short, although i don't doubt his love for her, he is pretty shite at times.
He wants dd for xmas and even though it sticks in my craw, there was never a possibility that I would say no. It's about her not me. I can cope with being on my own this year knowing she will be having a great time and we get to have another xmas when we are all back together.

You have to stop being so selfish, yes it hurts, yes it's shit but tough. He doesn't belong to you, he is a part of both of you and both of you should get to share in his life and special times.

fabsi he will never ask, my step daughter is too scared of upsetting her to ask, she is too scared to say she loves it here.

Doesn't mean at 16 she doesn't shed bitter tears over it.

You are selfish, selfish, selfish, selfish.

It isn't fair of you to make ds responsible for your happiness.

I wonder why contact is only once a week? Nothin to do with you making it awkward?

You should be ashamed - although you are so wrapped up in yourself, your bitterness and your hatred I doubt you ever will be.

You are exactly like DHs ex - and she has destroyed (dsds own words) dsds childhood.

DS has a right to a relationship with not only his fathers but his brothers/sisters and you are denying DS that happiness.

Poor little boy - using your children like this is emotional abuse and damages them for life.

As I've just written on your other thread, all that matters is the child. This isn't about you, its about your child.

Carry on like this and the first opportunity your son gets he won't be spending Christmas with you. Be the bigger person, allow your son to spend the day with his dad and smum and half siblings. You never know, they might actually really appreciate that you have given up something precious.

This reminds me so much of the situation I used to be in with my ex and it was solved with a simple solution.
The children were never allowed over on christmas eve~day~or boxing day in 11 years. So I changed the day that christmas fell on and the children got two christmas eves~days and boxing days.
Opening presents and having another christmas dinner on the 28th is something they enjoyed and it took the power and control away from the ex so everyone was happy.

Dss walked out of his mums when he was 14 and you sound so much like her.

He walked out on his relationship.... Not an existing child.

He is restricted by op's controlling behaviour regarding access, as so,so many men are! He maybe feels if he 'upsets' her his acess will be stopped.... After all, it's clear she holds all the cards here

Fabsi - if you won't allow your DS to go to his dad's on Christmas day because you will be 'all alone', then you are being SELFISH and putting YOUR wants ABOVE those of your child. You are a MOTHER. Your CHILD'S needs should come first.

You DO know that if your Ex goes to court, as a START POINT he will get Eevery other Christmas, half of his birthday, every other weekend (the WHOLE weekend, from Friday afternoon through to Monday morning), and a mid-week overnight every week MINIMUM.

He MAY get more than that.

I cannot believe how breathtakingly SELFISH you are.

I am in an even WORSE position that you are or were. I was MARRIED to my DS1's father. He cheated on me and got his OW pregnant WHILE WE WERE MARRIED AND STILL LIVING TOGETHER. They now have 2 dc together, and are expecting another one in January

Doesn't mean that I am so bitter and twisted that I would stop my DS1 from spending every other Christmas with his siblings at his dad's house.

You cannot cope with the fact that your ex has moved on. Given the situation - he left you when he had NO KNOWLEDGE that you were pregnant, and has since MARRIED his wife - I can't understand why you can't move on with your own life and accept that he DOESN'T WANT YOU.

And that should have no bearing on his access to his ds.

If he was here, on MN, I would be advising him to take you to court for much better access to his ds.

I cannot understand why you haven't let go of your bitterness after 5 YEARS. You are letting YOUR bitterness at the end of your relationship with your DS's father adversely affect your DS'S relationship with his dad. That is VERY WRONG. My father was a lone parent to me - and he was the way with me that you are with your ds. It made me really hate him in the end...I hope you realise that that is what you are setting yourself up for from your DS!

And op disappears and 'wibbly' appears?

I can see why he left you.

'i'm sure he will pick them over me' - is an AWFUL thing for any parent to say. You should be ashamed of yourself.

If a man is invited to visit his child on Christmas Day, and says No, that is really bloody sad, though.

A court would not take kindly to it if you were ASKING your 5yo ds where he wanted to be on Christmas day. Because to a 5yo, they are not old enough to be able to separate from the fact that they want to see BOTH parents at christmas, and not wanting to upset either parent, and it can cause great emotional distress asking them to do that. A court will not DIRECTLY ask a child under 8/9yo things like that - they would be appointed a Guardiam Ad Litem who would work in the CHILD'S best interests. And the G-A-L WOULD say that the access I set out above IS in your son's best interests. I can guarantee that if you got into a court room - YOU WOULD QUITE POSSIBLY LOSE RESIDENCY OF YOUR SON DUE TO CONTACT BLOCKING.

Because what you are doing is classed as contact blocking. It is not even your day to HAVE your ds on Christmas eve - it is his dad's day. THAT is the height of fucking selfishness.

Your ex has NO responsibility to you. AT ALL. HE could and should have every other christmas with his son in HIS OWN HOME WITH HIS DW AND OTHER DC.

I really wish I knew your ex - so I could TELL him to go to a solicitor. Because he would get much more access than he does now, and possibly more!

RESIDENT PARENTS LIKE YOU GIVE THE REST OF US A BAD NAME.

RESIDENT PARENTS LIKE YOU MAKE IT HARDER FOR ABUSED WOMEN TO STOP UNSUPERVISED CONTACT. BECAUSE THEY GET TARRED WITH THE BRUSH THAT YOU PAINTED.

He isn't being invited he is being blackmailed, manipulated and the ds is being denied the chance to christmas with his dad and siblings.

What the op is doing isn't an invitation.

Well said Huntycat

I absolutely agree with Hunty.

It's cases like this and DHs ex that have helped lead to the withdrawal of legal aid in contact disputes.

DSD is 16 soon and still her mothers pawn - she is a victim of abuse by her mother as much as if her mother was battering her - and like many victims of abuse unable to stand up to her abuser.

Dsd adores her mother - but is becoming more and more aware of how abusive her mother is.

One day her eyes will be wide open, I don't actually want that for dsd because I think a good relationship wih her mother and father would be best. But I can't change her mothers behaviour - I cam only help dsd minimise its impact.

It's abuse and it's disgusting.

Love the way the OP is getting a flaming on this whichever side she posts it from!

OP have you asked your son how he would like to split the day? He is 5 he will no doubt have a preference. If he wants to spend the whole day at home and have his dad pop in then you have a case for argument. If he would like to spend xmas eve/part of xmas day with his dad and his siblings and you won't let him because you will be on your own then you are being incredibly selfish imo.

What gets ME is that my advice hasn't changed from the other thread, despite one thread being from one POV, and the other from the opposing POV. My advice is still the same. And having been in an even WORSE situation than the OP, I feel qualified to GIVE the advice I am giving.

I can't understand why some people's opinion is different depending on which OP they read. Mine is the same from either side.

Because it's NOT about the OP. Because it's NOT about the OP's ex. Because it should ONLY be about what is right for the CHILD in this situation.

Anyone whose advice has differed between the two threads, IMO, is a hypocrite.