To be pissed off that step - SIL is expecting DC7?

[mothersdaughter]

Just returned from the in laws for the pre Xmas meet up.

DH's step Sister was there. She proudly announced she is pregnant with DC7. She is 28, has never worked since leaving school. Her DP does not live with her, but they are together. He is the father of all the children. He does not work either, so they are essentially living off the state. She has no plans to consider long term contraception.

This week DH and I came to the conclusion that there would be no DC3. We cannot afford for me to have another lot of Maternity leave, and also childcare fees.

DH works full time, I work almost full time and both DC's are in nursery. He are not near the breadline, but have to be very careful and things like holidays etc are just not possible. Therefore it is more than sensible to not have a DC3. I have felt a little sad this week, I do sort of feel that I'd love another one, but its just not workable.

So AIBU to be totally pissed of that step SIL can bang out kid after kid with no thought or consequence? Funnily enough she just could not fathom out why having another DC would cost us money, when for her its just increases her income.

Yes, I can assure you she does exist.

I do not openly despise her at all. I only know about her life from what I see, what she tells me and what MIL tells me.

I have no idea what she spends her money on, as I said earlier she doesn't brag about spending lots of money on luxury items. In fact she showed me her nails that she had had done the day before at a beauty college, paying less than a £5 for it, so hardly frivolous. They don't have holidays as far as I am aware, and pictures she shows of her DC's at home show fairly old furniture.

that I am a journalist.

Nope, I am a very boring MN'er. I name changed for this because I didn't want to out myself as obviously I have discussed my SIL in real life with friends etc and to be honest I suspect her situation is pretty unusual.

Yabu you choose your lifestyle and others theirs. I'm sure if you sold your house, rented in undesirable area left work, got more protein from pulses and less from meat, changed shopping habits, you may be entitled to child tax credit, housing benefit, etc, and you could have 3 dcs.

But you choose not to as having nice house and being able to work, taking your musa out etc are important to you.

Old furniture??

No matter what you think or pertain to know about a person it's rare to know the whole story of you are not living it...

if you want to have a 3rd - have one. theres always a way to make it work. we cut back lots.

Nail - how on earth do you know what my house is like or what my shopping basket contents are?

We live in a 2 up 2 down. Tried to sell our house last year, but we are in negative equity so have decided to stay put.

We shop at Asda. As I said before we are not on the breadline but just struggling to keep up with a mortgage, child care costs, commuting costs. DC1 has a special diet for medical reasons which can be costly.

But why would I make those choices if the only way I could do it would be to rely on HB, tax credits. We have worked out that we cannot afford another DC on wages that we earn. So that's it. Choice made.

Do you really need to know the whole story though?

It would have to be one hell of a story for it to make it ok to have seven children that you can't provide for.

Light - What I meant by the old furniture was that she does not appear to be spending excessive amounts of money. As much as you seem to think I am a DM journo/benefit bashed, I was actually defending her in the sense that she doesnt appear to have an extravagant lifestyle. I am pretty sure the money she does claim all goes on the basics such as food, nappies, heating, clothes

Sky - we just can't. Our house is too small as it is. We have a CC bill hanging over us as anything out of the ordinary needs to be paid with that as we don't have any real disposable income once the bills are paid.

I know it's easy to say OP, but think about it- all this poor woman can do is knock out babies. You probably have loads in your life- fufilling jobs, hobbies, maybe nice holidays in the future your children will always remember- she's a baby machine, and I have a lot of respect for anyone who can deal with 7 children - as in keeping them all fed and unharmed tbh, I think with that many kids, most days anything else is a bonus! But it's not a lifetstyle to envy, it sounds awful, and rubbish for her children too.
Is she your step sister in law? It's quite unusual for 1 person in a family to randomly to Lead a benfits lifestyle...

Any woman who has 7 dc, who she struggles to cope with, to the point where she is relying on her eldest 2 dc to take her younger dc to school, where her dc are unkempt and their main form of entertainment is the tv, all of them stuck indoors together with only the tv to keep them occupied apart from the inevitable bickering and fighting and general horsing around that I imagine 7 dc entails while the father of her 7 dc is lounging around in a completely different home, leaving all the 24/7 responsibility to her, has my sympathy.

Imagine what it's actually like to live with 7 dc, knowing that if you need help, you have to rely on one of your older dc or reach for the phone??

I'm afraid I would feel rather pissed off with my partner for not sharing the responsibility for the dc we had together and would begin to resent him eventually...no amount of money could make up for the fact that she is doing it on her own.

Having said that, I truly don't understand why some posters on this thread feel the need to detract from the point that to continue reproducing without any thought to how you are going to support these dc is wrong, regardless of whether OP would like more dc, or whether other things cost more of the tax payers money...the fact is that from what the OP has said, her SIL is morally wrong for continuing to have more children that she cannot support herself, and her partner also doesn't support. That is what this thread is about.

Why do we always have to get sidetracked and brush the points made by the OP, which are valid imo, under the proverbial carpet because there are more important things apparently to concern ourselves with?

Every time I see a thread like this, there are always posters who defend people in OP's SIL's position, and I'm interested why? Surely to god, there must be a better defence of the SIL or people like her than that it's not as expensive for the state as XYZ, or the OP must just be jealous/hurt because she can't afford more dc??

Try to seperate the two, I know that is not easy but try.

There are parents having 6 - 7 children and living on the state, there are parents in third world countries having 7 children and living in the street, that is not relevant.

You are going through a period of mourning for DC3 who will not happen.

You have two DC, be proud of that, you are also a good parent, a responsible citizen and it sounds like you have a stable family.

In a few years you will probably have a couple of university graduates earning their own money and you and hubby will own a home and be having holidays and quality time together.

Witht he changes in benefits and the housing rules your SIL will be living in a bedsit on 1/4 of the money she has now. And that will be it. An old age of poverty with children who will not respect her.

Back to your own children, you will be a doting grandparent with enough cash to spoil your grandchildren, take them on holiday, do all the things you cannot do with DC3.

my SIl has 8 DC's am i jellous.... yes

Her Dh no longer works and is the carer for one of the Dc's (CAB advised this) - Would i like my DH home all day yes - would i have a diabled child to allow this...no!

Yes they have the lastest 'stuff' and seem 'well off' compared to us..... but they havr 8 Dc's Oldest is only 12 youngest is 4 mths... they cant just 'nip' to the park, or go swimming EVERYTHING is a huge effort, and involves planning.

My ONLY concern is the welfare of my nieces and nephews - and they are all well ballanced happy kids and doing well at school ;)

I imagine her life is a bit shit, really.

Yes she can choose to have another baby without making it worse, but it sounds as if it's pretty bad to start off with.

Don't be envious of her, that's silly. If you had another child you would be worse off than you are now but still better off than she is.

I'm not just talking about money.

It is one of life's great unfairnesses that only the very rich and people who live on benefits can have as many children as they want.

But then - you wouldn't want to live in a society which didn't provide unemployment support, and certainly not a society which didn't provide long-term support to people caring for children / adults with disabilities.

How do you do that without a minority thinking "sweet, I'll just live on that then, why try harder"? Heaven knows.

I have had some very wise words here, especially around the issues of not having DC3. The advice is much appreciated.

Its a shame that you can't seem to have this discussion on MN without shouts of "Journo", "Made-up" etc. I can assure you the situation is not made up and does exist.

I cannot fathom why anyone would think its acceptable for someone to have 7 children whilst they have no methods to support them themselves. I am not talking about situations like Hunty described - of course there are unplanned pregnancies in less than desirable circumstances. That can happen to anyone. But surely choosing to have child after child when you are not supporting themselves is wrong, on the parts of SIL and her DP.

I deliberately left out information about her lifestyle, as I felt the debate was about her choices re children. However, to the posters who say its perfectly acceptable for her to do this, and how she will end up starving etc, I can asure you she has thrown away many oppertunaties for a better life for her and the DC's. She has taken them out of school on several occasions, moved to various places in the country. Left reasonable accomodation to stay at friends and then declared her and the DC's homeless.

This is not about drip feeding the argument, but if some people honestly believe she is having so many children in a responsible manner you are sadly mistaken.

OP you shouldn't worry so much about what other people do with their lives. No, she shouldn't be living off the state but lots of people do much worse things than that! The reason people have less money these days is because of greedy corrupt politicians and bankers not people claiming benefits. And, troisgarcons the morning after pill is actually an abortificant and against many people's religion/principles, including mine so it is not just an easy option to pop a pill to kill a developing life. She might be getting lots of benefits but I am sure she has other difficulties. I think you should go ahead and have DC3 anyway, maybe downsize a bit so your mortgage payments are less or get an au pair which is cheaper than a nursery - do you need to work full time at all as nursery is so expensive it might be cheaper to be a sahm?

But to her, life is not shit. Because she doesn't benchmark her life to what I think is a reasonable way of living.

I'd be in tears if my morning routine was like hers, I saw it at the weekend, with small kids just eating cereal out the box for breakfast, shouting and jumping over each other, etc. But for her, this is a perfectly normal morning, and she doesn't feel any angst that the DC's dont really have a normal breakfast etc.

I suppose we just see life very differently.

Choc - tried to sell our house, but we are in negative equity. Cannot down size any more, we already only have 2 beds! So downsizing and having another DC is not possible.

Yes, although childcare is expensive I do need to work. Although there is very little left of my salary its a safety net in terms of the future. If DH lost his job (could happen) then we would be screwed.

Believe me, I know about the greed of bankers and politicans, etc. I am working in an NHS that is being broken in pieces because of these people!

The way the state distributes money and thereby encourages/discourages certain behaviour is surely everyone's business?

(not mine, as don't live there, but read mn benefits threads in shocked fascination)

YANBU.

Many people make the decision not to have more children based purely on financial reasons. It's sad but realistic for that to be the reason.

However, to see and hear such a stark contrast from someone in your own extended family must be hard to swallow. It's the sheer opposite of your own situation that must be hard to take and accept. If it were me in your position, I would feel pissed off too. I appreciate others have said that by OPs SIL not having DC7 wouldn't give the OP money to have a third. But still, I believe that deliberately continue to have children without the funds to bring them up is morally wrong.

It happens doesn't it. But I think for it to be so blatant and so 'close to home' at a time when you're sad that you've come to the decision to stop makes it hard. YANBU to be pissed off.

BUT, please take the context into account (your dc's upbringing, their quality of life and the decision is for your family as a whole). You're being responsible and considering the long-term implications. I know in which scenario I'd rather be.

You make your choices, she makes hers.
Ok, so you can have an opinion about people keep having kids that the state ends up paying for but you shouldn't be blaming/resenting other people for the decision you make about not having another child.

It is one of life's great unfairnesses that only the very rich and people who live on benefits can have as many children as they want.

The Parabolic Curve of Wealth. As my DH calls it. It's shit.

choc The morning after pill doesn't "kill a developing life" it prevents a fertilised ovum from implanting. They don't cause abortions and won't work if you are already pregnant. They are emergency contraceptions that can be used retrospectively to prevent pregnancy. In an emergency.

Oh and they can also prevent your ovaries from releasing an egg, if doing so could result in a fertilisation.