to think that if you don't want people taking photos of your child in the school play don't let them be in it!

[2anddone]

Hi I am sure this has been done a hundred times before but I am so pissed off. DS had his school nativity play today and at the start we were told no photos or videoing was allowed. Typically enough it was the first school production where he hasn't cried. They are not filming the play or offering us any other ways to get a 'memory' of the play and the reason given was that 2 parents had requested no photos were allowed. This is not due to religious beliefs it was simply they didn't want other people taking photos of their dc. I know IAPBU but I don't care IMO if you don't want your child photographed in the play collect them early and don't let them be in it! Rant over

niceguy2 I can only assume you're name is ironic.

There have been many explanations of the dangers - from the most extreme cases of protection from abuse, to the more common adoption/fostering reasons, to reasons like tiger kidnap that could affect anyone with access to a commodity desired by criminals (key holder in a jewellery store, supermarket manager, bank staff etc etc ordinary, run of the mill working people).

There have been suggestions of ways to protect vulnerable children and still enable parents to have a momento of the day.

And yet you post drivel like that? Do you mean to sound so stupid?

Would any parent honestly sacrifice someone else's child's happiness for a photograph? Really?

I cannot believe it.

YANBU

It's completely over the top.

Not exactly living up to your name there, Niceguy, are you?

Perhaps a better approach would be the approach that most schools seem to be taking - to ask people to follow a simple rule that allows all children to participate and doesn't actually hurt anyone.

And yes, your sarcasm not withstanding, if it saves one child, it is worth it. Just because that one child isn't YOUR child doesn't make them any less worthy of protection.

But everyone else's vulnerable children can sit on the sidelines, or take their chances - as long as you get to stick a blurry photo of your PFB in a teatowel up on Facebook for everyone to "aaaaah" at.

x-posted with several others who actually have a grip on reality.

niceguy you really need a new name. You have made yourself sound like a twat.

Nobody suggested cancelling the shows. Just that it is not necessary to videotape them. Or post pictures of them on the internet.

If you have read the thread you will understand why schools sometimes have to put this restriction in place to protect vulnerable children. Have you read nevertoldanyones story? This sort of thing could have saved her and her children a harrowing ordeal. Do you still think parents taking photos is more important?

imogen - I'm sure he does love looking at pictures of himself but there is no reason you can't take pics of him in his costume before and afterwards and talk about the production.

nevertold - I am so, so sorry for your horrific experience. I hope it has made people realise that this isn't a theoretical danger but a very real threat :(

x-posted imogen :)

DSS primary no issues with filming taking pics of concerts / plays/ anything else. Parents sign a waiver at the start of the year if they have no problems with it. Don't know any who have not signed it. Maybe just lucky with the school and that no parents have abuse issues.
Went to give a talk there in the summer, my photo taken along with kids' for newsletter. No issues.

How the hell though can you regulate this thing? Kids with their photos taken on the beach, kids on CCTV, it's almost impossible, actually it is impossible. With camera phones, CCTV, and even their mates or older siblings posting to their friends on FB stopping a child's image from hitting the electronic media in any way is dammed hard to do.

As I said yesterday, just because the school can't do everything does not mean they should wash their hands of it and do nothing.

My dsc (x4) have plenty of photos of their school performances and we love looking at those. I hope that when time comes for my dc it will be possible to have a photo also. Shame if there will be a blanket ban for one reason or another.

It would be a minor shame for you if you don't get a photo. It would be nice if you can have one, but if you can't you'll get over it.

It would be a fucking massive tragedy if a child was tracked down by a known abuser due to photos of school events. That child might well not get over it.

niceguy2 'Fuck it, let's cancel all xmas plays & concerts and make sure all parents have their cameras crushed. After all, you can never be too careful and if it saves one child.......'. I don't think anyone has actually said that, but why let the truth get in the way of a good sweeping, dramatic statement, eh? If that one child at risk was your child, would you care then?

Look, the reasons have been explained many times. If people choose to disregard them, due to naivete, a lack of exposure to the type of horrific abuse that goes on (thus the refusal to accept it), or well, the arrogant belief that their child is the only important one, so once they get their photographs, never mind about the safety of anyone else's, so be it. No-one can force you to listen, but can you really not try to understand? Really?

I get that it will be disappointing for some parents to not have the opportunity to take photos of their children during the play. But you can still take photos of your children before and after, with their friends, with Granny when you get them home, and so on. So it's not really the end of the world if you cant snap a few shots during the play, potentially blocking the view of another parent, while your flash distracts poor Joseph who then fluffs his lines and bursts into tears, is it?

We are in the position of no pictures for security reasons and due to an unfortunate incident after a parent took a pic and posted it on facebook when she knew the reason for no photo's I enforce this with a letter every term. The incident was the near kidnapping of one of my DC from the school by her Mum's 'friend' drug dealer

There is a compromise here though we send in a camera and DC teacher takes a pic of the group for us with my DC. Then my DC step aside and the 'official' pic is taken by parents after the show. The same with all end of year pics/group shots my DC step aside.
We know we cannot keep the DC 100% safe but if we can make them feel safe at school, allow them play in the yard at breaks without the worry that some one will grab them then yes I think a parent should sacrifice the pictures of the whole group on stage in acting mode and be happy with what the school allows but also we as the parents who don't want our DC pictured need to realise our D will miss out on certain things and that may at times be the fun events such as nativity plays if the trust that other parents will not post pic/films on public websites is not there
Sorry what a post

Blimey - things have gotten quite dramatic here!!

Not quite understanding how a photo at a nativity could put a child at risk. I'm all for safeguarding vulnerable children - but please explain what terrible things might happen as a result of such a photograph?

NiceGuy I took to be giving a mock horror response.

Why don't you read the thread Animation? There are plenty of posts which explain exactly what the risks are

Since posting I have just read your post Canyon . Sorry to hear - your child was nearly kidnapped as a result of a photo!!

I'm wondering if the solution might be for the vulnerable at risk children to wear costumes that might disguise their faces.

Step My biggest worry is when they move on to secondary school where camera phs etc will be used by the DC. Right now in primary the only problem is the parents with phones/camera's. For me the school is a set place where the DC will be at set times, set days and it is similar to giving the person the DC home address, public places are just that and it is not so easy to pinpoint a definite address from there just a general location.

I'm probably going to regret jumping into this - but it does seem to be a bit like punishing victims - or telling girls that they shouldn't wear short skirts in case they attract unwanted attention.

Why aren't we doing a better job of dealing with dangerously abusive parents - locking them up or tagging them - rather than making kids spend their lives looking over their shoulders?

After all, as canyou says above, kids don't just get photographed by parents at nativity plays - there are cameras everywhere - how are you going to police photos taken by friends and posted to the web?

Animation that is the more dramatic end of the scale and was because a friend of the poster Mum saw the pic and said it to some one who made the connection, we since moved schools,

I have been pondering why people still think the protection measures are daft, even after reading people's personal experiences. I can only assume one of the following:

1. They don't believe the stories - they think people are making them up or exaggerating and that things like this only happen in films or books.

2. They think that families who have horrific things in their backgrounds are lesser/different to them somehow - perhaps that they brought the situation on themeselves through bad choices.

3. They simply think the world is a lot fluffier than it actually is and don't want their bubble punctured by harsh reality - this could never happen to them after all.

If anyone doubts that people like those described by MrsDV, Nevertold and Canyou really exist and really are capable of obsessive cruelty, let me assure you that they do. I do a job where I am regularly confronted with some of the worst things that people do to other people. I have had more than one client moved into witness protection type hiding because of choices they made during their own criminal cases. I have dealt with multiple cases where the victims of domestic violence have been moved to unknown locations and helped to start new lives. I have been visited at work by the police because one client was considered a serious risk, not only to his two ex-partners and children, but also to any female professional who worked with him in any capacity. These things happen all the time. They may not happen to you but that doesn't mean they are just a fantasy dreamed up by those concerned with child protection to piss you off.

These things can happen to anyone. Domestic violence doesn't just happen to people living in sink estates with no job and a criminal partner. Nice middle-class women are beaten up by their financier husbands. Children growing up in leafy suburbia come home to find mummy having the crap kicked out of her on the kitchen floor because daddy has had a bad day. People don't see their entire lives mapped out before them - people make choices because they seem like the right thing at the time. No-one goes into a relationship expecting it to end in a night-time flit from a terrifying partner.

Just because these things aren't happening to you doesn't mean that they aren't happening, or that they aren't important. You might be sitting watching your angelic 5 year-old starring as Mary, in a haze of fluffy, Christmas cheer, marvelling at the lovely display of childhood innocence, your camera finger itching, thinking "one photo won't hurt". The woman three seats down from you might be watching her child in a mix of pride and terror, wondering if someone is going to ignore the "no cameras" rule and stick an identifying picture of her child on Facebook, and whether that might be enough, together with those midnight dropped phonecalls she has been getting and the strange woman who keeps showing up near her house, for the ex who broke her nose and tried to strangle her to track them down.

We all live in this society. Our childrenall reap the benefit of free education - it is everyone's responsibility to protect the vulnerable, because no one child is more important than any other. And certainly no child's right to a picture of their nativity play is more important than another child's right to live free from fear and abuse.

Sorry. Long post, but some of the posts on this thread have horrified me.

Well said kungfupanda. Excellent post. Hopefully some people might actually finally "get it"