Is it my responsibility as a friend?

[littlemisssarcastic]

I have a friend who is imo in an abusive relationship. Her P deprives her of money, doesn't lift a finger in the house at all, not even to make a cup of tea ever, she doesn't trust him with their DC because he has zero patience, and she really struggles to keep everything going.
She does all of the childcare, housework, cooking, cleaning, organising, everything. Her P works f/t and then spends the rest of his time playing computer games with his brother/surfing the net. (My friend is banned from using the net btw.) When he isn't doing those he is sleeping, sometimes for the whole day.

Now, whilst it is frustrating to watch her struggling and see the effect this relationship is having on their DC, she refuses to contemplate a life without him because she says he is a good man and he is not perfect but he is the same as other men.

She talks about him alot, and brings him into every conversation, and I honestly don't think she can see how bad he really is. She criticises other people's partners when her own is awful. I have learnt to say nothing, because she gets defensive (I understand that.) and nothing changes so there seems little point until she accepts she deserves more IYSWIM.

Anyhow, her P lets her down alot, he wont take her shopping (she doesn't drive) and he sometimes disappears to his brothers all weekend from friday night to sunday evening to play computer games, leaving her with no gas (meter) and no electric (meter) and no money.

(He also takes the modem when he goes to work/his brothers so she can't go online for anything.)

She tells me all this and then says 'Ahhhh bless him, he worries' It is very frustrating to sit back and do nothing but that is the situation.

Anyhow, I am getting increasingly frustrated that while her P is playing computer games, or sleeping, my friend is asking her friends (including me) to take her shopping, because P is sleeping..bless him, or nip to the shop with her gas key (a bus ride away) and lend her a fiver to put some gas on, because her P hasn't left her with enough, or pick her DC up from nursery/school because her P has just phoned to say he wont be picking them up because he has gone to his brothers/is sleeping etc.

Only this last week, one of her DC was feeling quite poorly, and she needed to take this DC to the OOH Dr's (weekend) so she phoned her P but guess what? He was at his brother's and was in the middle of the next level on the computer game and couldn't just leave the game at that point, he needed to get to a save point first and he couldn't do that in time to drive back and take her to the Dr's.

So she phoned me and I took them. On the way, she was very open about telling me that she'd told P not to worry, that she'd get a friend to help her out again and he wasn't to worry, she would cook his dinner for when he came home.

I feel that by helping her I am enabling him to continue not to bother. I don't want to see her suffer and her P knows this, he knows that she will find someone else to help her and the DC, but tbh, I am getting really frustrated by it now..it is every 2/3 days she needs another favour because her P has let her down again.

I am a shit friend, I know. I must be because I'm not happy about changing my plans at a moments notice to sit down a OOH Dr's surgery for 2.5 hours waiting for one of her DC to be seen, whilst watching the other DC when she went in to Gp with ill DC, because her P can't be fucking arsed and she can't see what's wrong with that!!

I must be a shit friend because I don't want to spend one day every week taking her shopping because her DP is fucking sleeping (after sleeping all night too) or surfing the net, or quite often because he just doesn't want to take her shopping..because he hates shopping (unless it involves power tools.) He has said this in front of me and other friends, so it is not just my friends version.

AIBU to think it's not my responsibility to pick up where her P is slacking and then have to listen to how bloody wonderful he is because she has to mention him in every single conversation, I kid you not??

You poor lady, I wish I knew what to suggest. I do
Think you need to be more honest with her about how she is damaging her children by being with him and that his behaviour is wrong - be relentless with it. I feel so very sorry for her children and quite mad at her for letting them be surrounded by this kind of abusive situation

Could you phone the SS? It is not healthy for those children to be in such an environment

Can you call somewhere like Women's Aid and ask them what the best thing to do is?

Personally, the next times she says things like, "He doesn't like going shopping, bless him", I'd be replying, "What makes you think I do?" And I might be considering a toasting discussion with her P about how unreasonable he's being.

It does sound like as n abusive relationship, and she is accepting it as normal. Of course, it won't change if she doesn't push it to, so she has to recognise it as wrong first. I don't know how or if you can help with that, but maybe SS or Women's Aid can help.

You are a good friend to her, but you are not helping by doing these things.
They both know you will help, and the child will get to the doctor, or will have bread and milk, so they don't bother. I really think you need to sit her down and have a talk with her. Say what you said to us. Tell her that it is time for them to take responsibility for themselves.

Is she in an isolated area, or are there buses she can take?

Your responsibility as a friend is to tell her that this is not normal, this is not how loving partners and fathers behave and that she deserves better.
I agree with others, don't enable (unless life threatening). Next time she asks you to pick them up because he is playing, try to make sure she understands how ridiculous his excuse is. His child is sick but computer game is more important??

He takes the modem away from the house, and leaves her and the children with no gas or electric.
Fucking hell, what kind of a man (and I use the term loosely) does that???

I also agree with others, do not enable. It will be very, very hard for you, but this excuse for a father has to take responsibility.

I think three questions should be asked here.

1. Is the child(ren) his?
2. How old are they?
3. How long has be been the partner?

My own opinion is for her to get out of the relationship now because there is no relationship. It's a difficult decision to make (I know because I've done it) but there will be friends around and/or relations (relations have not been mentioned yet have they?) who will support her on the route.

Women's Aid is a good idea. I don't know anything about SS except for the dealing with children, in dramas on TV, who are taken away from their mothers so I cannot give an opinion there.

Can you stop answering the phone for a few weeks?

I can see your dilemma, withdrawing your help could make her become even more emotionally dependent on him and constantly criticising him can make her become even more defensive.

Do you have a partner yourself? Or do any mutual friends? I would maybe try to come up with some anecdotes about ways in which they have been super parents or partners, mention each time you see her stuff about the chores they do or their loving behaviour, just casually, not as though it's unusual behaviour. Let her know she's not alone and always has options in life and friends who will support her in difficult decisions.

Thanks for all your advice and support. To answer a few of your questions, I, and other friends have tried talking to her, saying it's not normal, and is disrespectful and abusive to her, yet she just isn't ready to accept that. It's more the fact that she wont entertain the idea that it's not usual behaviour in a relationship that makes her friends reluctant to mention it anymore. Everytime someone mentions it, she just starts defending him.

For example, she was complaining once that her P never ever helps in the house, and asked 'Why are men so lazy? Why do they just sit on their backsides when they get home from work?'
Another friend who was with us replied 'I don't know because my DH helps around the house, and doesn't sit down when he gets home until everything is done, regularly cooks dinner, washes dishes, does bathtime etc.'
Friend with nasty P then says 'Yeah, but you work p/t so it's different for you, my P would help if I worked p/t.'
I then said 'My XP cooked/cleaned/did lots of housework when he got home from work and I was a SAHM, so I think that's not unreasonable to ask.'
Friend says 'Yes, but my P does a physically strenuous job, and your XP never did, so my P is tired bless him and besides your DC was alot younger than mine are then'

In actual fact, my XP did an extremely physical job which I have told her many many times, while her P uses machinery to do his job so whilst it's not a sedentary position, it is not as physically draining, so that's one example of how she defends him.

Her DC are 5 and 3, so one at school and one at nursery. Her P is the bio father of them both, she has been with him for 6 years.

I would be tempted to speak to her P if I saw him, but because he goes to work and goes straight to his brother's or home to sleep/surf internet, I only see him once in a blue moon. Tbh, I am of the opinion that if I began saying something to him, no matter how diplomatically, which probably wouldn't dent his conscience anyway, she would defend him and possibly fall out with me and then she has lost another source of friendship.

I have actually asked her why she is with this man before, and she can't think of a single reason. She doesn't enjoy his company, is deprived of money, looks after her DC single handedly, (I can't remember him ever looking after them for even half an hour on his own), she does all of the cooking/cleaning and tbqh is drowning under the household chores and responsibilities. Yet she wont escape.

She has a mantra 'At least I know he isn't cheating on me, lying to me, stealing from me.'

Considering he cheated on his last g/f to be with her (because apparently he can't be single) I wouldn't be confident of his fidelity.

I didn't know her before she met him, so I couldn't tell you the difference.

I wish I could just make her see that her DC and her deserve much much more.

WTF are those children learning about relationships and the world around them by living in this set up??

I know op you are caught between a rock and a hard place. You sound like a fantastic friend tbh, but I think (medical emergencies aside) you are enabling her partner to be a lazy fuckwit by doing the stuff he should be doing. I think that you should back off, that way she will realise how bad it is, and hopefully rethink the relationship and her feelings towards her P. If she has nobody to give her lifts to shopping, no money than she will have to confront her P about this. If he asks for example why there is no food in the house, she can say to him well you did not take me, and I can't use the internet for online shopping. Also I would be frank with her and tell her how it is. Give her some information on Womens Aid. She sounds like she does not want to see the situation for what it is, and is trying to cover it up

Another vote for tough love / non-enabling.

StealthPolarBear, and Flimflammery have it spot on

Aw u have done all you can but you have to be tough otherwise its enabling him, you've been a very good friend.

I'm so angry for her situation, I hope she see's the light soon.

By not enabling her you will be doing her a huge favour, and she will have to confront the situation for what it is.

I agree with . . .

Can you ask her 'What would happen if I couldn't help? Would he leave you and the kids starving/abandoned at school/freezing?' and see what she says. If she says, yes he would. Then you gently say 'That's not what a normal responsible loving father does, is it? It's not normal to not be allowed to use the internet, or to not be left enough money for food. Sweetheart, it's abusive.'

In fact I agree with nearly every single post. This is a very sad situation and what you said in your most recent post about the excuses she makes for him makes me wonder if she'll ever realise.

Maybe when she was excusing this lack of help around the house you could have said very firmly "no xxxxx, you are making excuses for him. Every single other man that I have ever met, known, and even heard off, has helped around the house despite his job, how physical it is and whether his partner worked. You can make excuses as much as you like but the fact is that your P is a very lazy selfish man. The most lazy and selfish man I have ever met. You are kidding yourself if you think he isn't. I'll be here for you in the long term but for now I can't continue to do HIS job, of being there for his family and doing what dad's do."

Perhaps you can word that better. I know it's not easy to be so blunt but she has her head in the clouds and she is unlikely to pick up on anything more subtle.

I think perhaps tough love is the only way to go on this way.

I think I will have to be tough...I am struggling myself atm, and it is made more difficult by the fact that I have no support myself. When I lend her money for electric/gas/give her lifts, I am doing this out of extremely limited funds. I receive no maintenance for my own DD and my DD has no contact with my XP atm (XP's choice) so I am rather short on time/money myself.

I just can't afford to help her without going without myself, yet she is left with less to live on than me, and that's to support 4 of them, as opposed to me supporting me and DD.

But you can both suffer at the hands of her P.

Perhaps I should also mention I am not the only friend she asks to help her.

Another friend did ask her 'What would happen if I couldn't help? Would he leave you and the kids starving/abandoned at school/freezing?'

Her reply was 'Ha ha ha yeah probably, but that's men for you!! I know I moan about him but he's not a bad man.'

When it was pointed out that other men don't behave this way towards their families, she always manages to find a reason why her situation is different.....her P works harder/is depressed over something that happened years ago and behaves this way because of that/her DC are older/younger etc.

She even said that it is only right that she stays up until 10pm at night while he sits and does nothing because he works all day where she is a SAHM atm, and she gets her leisure time during the day, when she has coffee with her friends.

It is frustrating but I am going to back off and not help as much even though it makes me feel like a bitch.

He doesn't even play with the DC or supervise them while she is trying to cook/clean/iron in the evenings (whatever she hasn't got done in the day) so effectively she is as close to a single parent without being one as I have ever seen.

To top it off, he shows no respect for anything she has done and just drops his dirty boots/clothes on the floor when he arrives home, leaving trails of mud everywhere which she then cleans up.

Apparently it is also his mother's fault for doing everything for him when he lived at home, so he has no clue how to cook/clean.

Sounds to me like you have more of a relationship with her than he does.
I agree that you have top stop helping, as hard as it will be especially if you're like me and can't say no to anyone.
When she asks you to take her shopping ask where her poor excuse of a partner is, if he's gaming/at his brother/unwilling to help say no (firmly) he'll have to do it. He won't do it because he knows you or someone else will pick up the slack. Next time she says she's told him not to worry laugh (sarcastically)and say something like "he's not worried otherwise he'd be here instead of me"
Very frustrating for you.

Then littlemiss you know what you must do, do you know her other friends too? I think that she is too scared to confront the situation, deep inside I think she knows its not normal, but for whatever reason she cannot let go, mabey she does not have the confidence to go it alone and has relied on him as a crutch. Mabey you could ask the question "what would happen if I did not help" and if she gives the same answer, you say no its not normal, thats not what men do, you have to face reality.

I forgot to ask, what do you think would happen if you refuse to do something? Would she become arsey with you and make you feel guilty that her dc would be left stranded at school (for example). If she would, you have to try to get her to see the person she should be pissed off at is her partner.

I can only assume that your friend's father was a lazy shit too, as she has it so firmly wired into her that this is how men behave. Or her father was worse - knocked her mother about or cheated or whatever - so she believes this one is good because he's not that bad.

UserNameNotAvailable I think she would desperately be scrabbling around for someone else to ask for help, and would be abit pissed off at everyone who couldn't help her, rather than her P.

I don't think she thinks her P should be responsible for school pick ups or looking after DC at all, after all, he works.

And when he was unemployed, he did no more then..but he was depressed then.