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Original poster

to be annoyed ith the school - how many times can you penalise a child for poor attendance

270 replies

654321 · 06/12/2011 20:23

There are mixed opinions about taking your kids out of school, and we made a choice to take DS out of school for 5 days in total.....these were treated as unauthorised absence. Now bearing in mind that since reception DS's attendance has always been in the high 90's (around 98%) Im not typically a parent that takes non attendance lightly...and there were genuine non financial reasons for not taking holidays during the appropriate holidays - but I also accept that no one twisted my arm to go on holiday.

DS did not qualify for the xmas treat - day trip to the panto because of his attendance - which he accepted as he knew we had been away on holiday and got to do things whist other kids were in school - however now he has been told in addition to that he cannot attend the end of year christmas disco...

How many things can they disqualify him from - he is being punished for something that was technically my choice. It seems that the message is that anything nice coming up he wont be able to do because of his attendance - it just seems to be labouring the point at the expense of the child...DS is 12YO btw :)

OP posts:
Whatmeworry · 08/12/2011 11:40

Children should be rewarded and punished for the things that they, not their parents do

And how do you punish the parents in these cases? Fine Them? Throw their kids out of school? Don't invite them to the school prizegiving?

And strictly speaking, it was the child who did not attend and thus does not qualify for the benefits, so they are being punished for things they did (not) do.

The parents knew the score, so its totally irrational for them to then wail that poor DC didn't get the benefits despite knowingly not fulfilling the criteria. That is just sheer hypocrisy and an entitlement mentality

You take your kids out, fine, but you take the consequences too.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 08/12/2011 12:00

Morelli - are you going to carry on having the same week, and taking your dd out of school when she's in senior school, in her exam years?

MorelliOrRanger · 08/12/2011 13:57

If that is the most convenient week for DP then yes, but in Senior school it's hardly during revision weeks or exam weeks if it's in November.

Obviously if it does clash with anything of paramount importance then of course we'll have to not go away :(

However, the head did say that that she does realise that holidays are an important part of children's growing up as being at school full time.

My issue with the OP is if his attendance is in the late 90's % then why is he being punished. Is it different for different areas/schools?

MorelliOrRanger · 08/12/2011 13:59

At our school the children are allowed 10 days a year (which include sickness, family things/funerals etc etc) so a holiday of 5 days still leaves you with 5 days).

tethersjinglebellend · 08/12/2011 14:10

"And how do you punish the parents in these cases? Fine Them? Throw their kids out of school? Don't invite them to the school prizegiving? "

Hang on- are you saying that children should be punished because schools can't think of a way to penalise the parents? Really?

I think that that is no justification for this unfair system at all.

"And strictly speaking, it was the child who did not attend and thus does not qualify for the benefits, so they are being punished for things they did (not) do."

Strictly speaking, the decision whether or not to attend school was not the child's, but the parents. Moreover, why punish a child who has already missed a part of their education (however small) through no fault of their own?

"You take your kids out, fine, but you take the consequences too."

But this is the crux of the whole argument- the parents make the decision to take the kids out, but they do not receive the consequences. The children do not make the decision to take themselves out, yet they are the ones who must take the consequences. It is nonsensical.

knockneedandknackered · 08/12/2011 14:13

i think the schoolswrong for doing this they talk about attendance. then why is it when they want to do somthing there suddenly shut the school? can't they do this in the six weeks holidays if there so big on attendance. And you said your child has pretty good attendence so going on holiday whats wrong with that a child does good in school if thev've had a break. where as an unhappy child who dosent go on holiday can be unhappy too much power has gone to there heads i say.

Whatmeworry · 08/12/2011 14:32

OK Tethers, you tell me a workable way to punish the parents then. Until you can I'd stick with this one.

tethersjinglebellend · 08/12/2011 14:37

Really? So you think it's ok to punish children in this way just because I don't know the best way to punish the parents?

Blimey. Not much of an argument for the system.

"We just couldn't think of anything else"

Kladdkaka · 08/12/2011 14:52

So how comes a parent taking their child away from lessons for a few days is wrong but schools taking them away is ok?

ElaineReese · 08/12/2011 14:55

Presumably these events are only for children with 100% attendance, so unlikely to be the majority anyway?

samandi · 08/12/2011 14:57

Personally I think the whole thing about not being allowed to take kids away for a week or two in term time is rubbish. My parents regularly took me off on hols during term time and my work didn't suffer at all, I just caught up when I came back. But then my school had a fairly enlightened view of such things, and perhaps it's all different now anyway.

ElaineReese · 08/12/2011 15:02

It's got nothing to do with 'punishing the child', and that seems quite a egocentric way to think about it in this case. OP's child wasn't being 'punished', the others were having their excellent attendance rewarded.

I personally think a panto and a disco is a bit much, but there you go. OP you seem to be veiwing it as though these activities were designed with the main aim of punishing your son by excluding him, and that perspective just seems rather skewed.

tethersjinglebellend · 08/12/2011 15:05

Excluding children from activities because of actions beyond their control is punishing them.

It is just as wrong for those who have 100% attendance and are receiving a reward because of actions beyond their control.

A confusing and bizarre message is being communicated across the board to all children.

ElaineReese · 08/12/2011 15:14

I would say a clear message is being sent: 'we think attendance is very important, and those of you who managed exceptional levels of it will be acknowledged'.

tethersjinglebellend · 08/12/2011 15:15

I would amend that message to:

'we think attendance is very important, and those of you whose parents managed exceptional levels of it will be acknowledged'.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

ElaineReese · 08/12/2011 15:24

Well since OP is so bothered about it, maybe she will manage it in future though?

It's clearly targetted at a) truants and b) the 'mum I'm a bit poorly please can I stay off' brigade. Nothing wrong with making it clear that's not the best attitude!

tethersjinglebellend · 08/12/2011 15:33

I don't care who it's targeted at, it involves any child at school.

Children from abusive or neglectful families aren't excused from this system.

Children with medical conditions aren't excused from this system.

Children with mental health needs aren't excused from this system.

Children in care aren't excused from this system.

'Truants' at primary age tend not to be children refusing to go to school, but parents who are keeping them off for whatever reason.

So your assertion that there's nothing wrong with making it clear that 'mum I'm a bit poorly please can I stay off' brigade don't have the best attitude is, well, wrong. Those children form a tiny, tiny minority.

Cherriesarelovely · 08/12/2011 15:48

Glad to hear about that outcome OP. Interested in the rest of the thread too. I am totally against these stupid prizes for attendance (as I have said already). If there is an issue with a child's attendance then the school should take it up with their parents. It's pathetic enough for a child to be penalised for taking 5 days out of school as a one off but to apply the same rule to a child who made have had the flu or other medical issue is mad.

Whatmeworry · 08/12/2011 15:51

Really? So you think it's ok to punish children in this way just because I don't know the best way to punish the parents?

I'd challenge anyone to think of a way of punishing the parents here. And this way works, given the OP is frothing on MN - next year she will think it through a bit more, I'd suspect.

A confusing and bizarre message is being communicated across the board to all children.

Au contraire - its a very clear lesson that in life, yer takes yer lumps.

And I like the idea that its better thought of as a reward for good behaviour not punishment for bad..

Cherriesarelovely · 08/12/2011 15:54

But how is not being ill an achievement?!

Cherriesarelovely · 08/12/2011 15:55

My DD is in primary school but once her school started that ridiculous "attendance cup" nonsense she was petrified to miss a day even when she was feeling horrible. It resulted in lots of kids being sent in and throwing up everywhere! Ridiculous!

ElaineReese · 08/12/2011 15:57

It is saying, if you don't need to be off and it's within your control, don't be off. We think that is good. We will reward those who manage the not unconsiderable feat of showing up every day. This does not mean we are punishing those who do not or cannot manage it, but those who do will be acknowledged.

tethersjinglebellend · 08/12/2011 15:58

"Au contraire - its a very clear lesson that in life, yer takes yer lumps."

Err... even if the lumps are down to someone else? Not a message I'll be imparting, thanks all the same. I expect schools not to impart such a ridiculously glib statement too. Particularly not to children who already have more 'lumps' in their life than you or I ever will.

"And I like the idea that its better thought of as a reward for good behaviour not punishment for bad.."

How on earth is not being ill or having prudent parents 'good behaviour'?

Good behaviour should be rewarded. Attendance awards make a mockery of this.

Cherriesarelovely · 08/12/2011 15:59

But it isn't "within the childs control" is it?

ElaineReese · 08/12/2011 16:00

And yes, those kids do form a minority, but there's nothing wrong with making it clear that that is a rubbish attitude!

To be clear, neither of my children would get this: one has orthodontist appts regularly and the other has had three stomach bugs in the last three weeks. I can't think of many of their peers who would get it either, to be honest. And I do think lots and lots of celebrations are a bit OTT - personally I'd do a little certificate or something, but not loads of treats.

However, the kids who don't have 100% attendance aren't being punished. Those who do are being commended.