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AIBU?

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Original poster

to ask why the Sun and the Mail newspaper are so hated on here?

428 replies

missnamechange · 06/12/2011 11:18

I have name changed for this as i am a regular MNer and i know i really ought to know this Blush but i don't

i read the Sun every most days, i like the vacuous celeb gossip and their easy to understand way of writing (again - Blush ) and the womens section, and the problem pages

what's so bad about it?

OP posts:
NeuromanticisedVisionsofXmas · 07/12/2011 17:33

You haven't answered any of the questions, Nancy. Don't so much like being the interviewee?

JaneBirkin · 07/12/2011 17:38

LOL

sorry but that's all I can come up with and I know it's infantile.

Sorry Blush

Nancy you really are a right one

LEttletownofBOFlehem · 07/12/2011 20:35

Forkful- thanks for linking to that evidence from Alistair Campbell, I've just read the whole thing, and it was fascinating.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 07/12/2011 21:44

I've got it! I know how the Mail is completely different from the Mail Online yet has exactly the same stories.

One of the things the Mail is renowned for (after distortion, statistic-mangling and outright fiction) is plagiarism.

So what's happened, is this brave little website, Mail Online, has written all these fascinating stories about how gypsies eat swans, kids with ADD get free cars etc; and these bastards at the Daily Mail have just copied it all into the paper without attribution. Cheeky monkeys!

...I don't think nancy still writes for the mail though, have I got that right?

NeuromanticisedVisionsofXmas · 07/12/2011 22:16
Grin

They probably fired her for not writing about how immigrants are stealing babies to eat and making your house gay.

limitedperiodonly · 08/12/2011 10:01

MrsWifty I prefer Ally Ross in The Sun - or he was there last time I looked. Funny, sharp and someone who genuinely likes tv but doesn't want to appear on it because it will affect his ability to criticise.

I used to like Brooker but I now find him samey, conceited and overwhelmingly negative.

That 10 O'Clock Live show was rubbish and he'd have said so if he hadn't been starring in it.

I guess that's was Ross meant when he talked about the difficulty of writing about the telly when you appear on it.

So, there is merit in The Sun and dross in the Guardian, mostly on the features and op ed pages - Laurie Penny, Decca Aitkenhead, Hadley Freeman, Tanya Gold and they used to employ that fucking dreadful Hannah Pool.

It's not black and white. You should read stuff with a critical eye.

slug · 08/12/2011 10:12

Loving the idea that the Mail is concerned about accuracy Hmm

NeuromanticisedVisionsofXmas · 08/12/2011 23:45

HA!

ChattyKa · 09/12/2011 13:53

It seems to me that people who say they read the Guardian and Observer claim that this makes them open minded and in favour of free speech as though simply reading these papers renders them more moral. They may well be, but the Guardian and Observer have equally clear political viewpoints and prejudices as the Mail. No doubt their readers would claim to be intelligent enough to discern this and make up their own minds - but they feel that Mail readers aren't capable of doing the same thing. It also seems as though to many mumsnetters the Guardian and Obs view point is the natural default one for all intelligent and decent people and readers of the Mail seem to be morally and intellectually deficient - although I would imagine the Mail reflects some of the views of millions of women in the UK and they surely can't all be evil mysoginists. Someone posted earlier (sorry can't remember who) that her mother read the Mail (older female relatives do seem to get invoked a lot in critical terms for doing this) but had learned to keep her disgusting views to herself and not voice them. Isn't she allowed to express her opinions where they veer from the Guardian?

I do quite like the Guardian but this attitude that those who don't agree with it are somehow morally defective and vile (also seems to be a much used word) is very offputting.

NeuromanticisedVisionsofXmas · 09/12/2011 15:32

I don't think people who read the Guardian make any such claims. In fact knowing the demographic of the Guardian its highly unlikely that many would use your kind of terminology...who is judging morality from a choice of newspaper? Judging intelligence...maybe so do, but not morality. I think you will find it is in fact the DM itself which is overly interested in the morals of others.

And you seem to be conflating several points there....you seem to have decided that someone saying the Sun is vile actually means that anyone who doesn't read the Guardian is vile. With leaps like that you are going to hurt yourself.

MrsWifty · 09/12/2011 16:47

To be fair, The Sun sneers at The Guardian just as much as The Guardian sneers at The Sun - sandal-wearing Guardianistas anyone? It's just that Guardianistas get soooo much more wound up by it Xmas Wink

ChattyKa · 09/12/2011 17:21

Not sure what you mean - how will I hurt myself? As you have never met me how could you know what will hurt me? I read both Guardian and Mail online and enjoy them in different ways but I do notice that Guardian comments pages often reference Mail readers in highly derogatory ways while Mail comments do not refer to Guardian readers in that way as far as I see. As the Mail is clearly a far more popular newspaper all I am saying is that surely the views of those who read it can't simply be discounted as ignorant or vile can they? Found it very disturbing that a previous post referred to someone's mother as knowing better than to voice her Mail influenced opinions - why on earth shouldn't she? and why should we take it as a given that all right thinking people (sorry correctly thinking people) would be appalled by her views?

ChattyKa · 09/12/2011 17:27

Sorry forgot to say that I strongly disagree I am saying anyone who reads the Guardian is vile - far from what I mean. I just feel that the Mail seems to evoke such a strong reaction from Guardian readers in general (judging from their website) that it is almost emotional, yet as it is such a popular paper surely you can't just write off all its readers as morons, racists etc etc?

NeuromanticisedVisionsofXmas · 09/12/2011 17:29

Mmm, not so much with the subtlety or nuance of language, Chatty? Maybe you should try the guardian after all.

The point about the mother keeping her DM influenced opinions to herself was that they were racist and homophobic, IIRC, and oddly enough a lot of people don't like to hear such things.

Bunbaker · 09/12/2011 17:37

I bought a Sun yesterday to get the Moshi Mosters annual at half price. It was the first time I had read it in years and had forgotten just how awful the paper is. I really dislike the way the journalists write as if the reader can't understand words of more than one syllable and found the reporting and articles unbelievably patronising.

ChattyKa · 09/12/2011 17:42

Still would like you to explain your previous comment - how I will hurt myself? By reading the Mail? Should it be kept from people like myself who are not able to form our own judgements? As I mentioned above I do read both Guardian and Mail online.

I also have no doubt that a lot of people don't like to hear certain views expressed but my understanding is that Guardian readers are very much in favour of tolerance and free speech. Don't we all have the right to express views that may offend or disconcert others? Or should we be censoring for what may offend? I believe the Guardian invites views on its CIF site - should this be only for those who agree with its journalistic viewpoint or should we be able to express possibly contentious or offensive views? I really feel your comment that I might hurt myself is indicative of your patronising attitude, sorry.

claig · 09/12/2011 17:43

I have heard that a lot of Sun journalists went to Oxbridge and are highly educated. Don't know if that is true or not. But it makes you wonder.

ChattyKa · 09/12/2011 17:44

Also have to say that reading through your previous posts 'subtlety and nuance of language' not always evident ...

claig · 09/12/2011 17:45

'my understanding is that Guardian readers are very much in favour of tolerance and free speech'

so they say, but if you scratch the surface it often seems not to be the case.

NeuromanticisedVisionsofXmas · 09/12/2011 17:48

My previous comment was is known as a metaphor dear. Perhaps you should ask Santa for a dictionary instead of a Mail subscription.

alemci · 09/12/2011 17:49

as long as the tolerance and free speech reflects the guardian readers point of view maybe.

OhdearNigel · 09/12/2011 17:50

I read the guardian on my mobile, i if I'm buying a paper and I thoroughly enjoy reading the rabid frothers on the DM comments.

claig · 09/12/2011 17:53

Agree, the comments on the Daily Mail are great and often contain more insights than the Mail itself. The Mail struggles to keep up with the sagacity of its readers. It's a tough job to keep up.

ChattyKa · 09/12/2011 17:59

i just can't understand why it is a given that poster's mother should keep her Mail inspired views to herself because they might offend. Possibly some other views inspired by the Guardian might offend her? The assumption seems to be, as I said previously, that the Guardian represents all right-minded thinkers and therefore can't be offensive whereas the Mail is simply not to be tolerated.

Also would really like an explanation for where the metaphor was?

starlady · 09/12/2011 18:02

Fascinated by some of the comments here. I read the Daily Mail most days, also Times and The Guardian less often, and I'm often called (yesterday in fact) 'very left wing'. Yes my value system is very different to The DM, and I always read it through a critical prism. So why read it at all? The devil has the best tunes - newspapers are an industry and the DM executes a slick product which people want to read. The whole hype surrounding the DM a bit panto really. Everyone seems to know what's in the fecking paper, after all! It's like the Taliban reading porn to know to tell thier loyal followers how terrible it is. I know I should read the Guardian, but I find it hard to swallow - many of their readers and nearly all of their staff are utter hypocrites, who seem to want to let everyone know the 'right thing' to do - ie send their kids to state schools, but are completely elitist themselves and send them privately, look at Polly Toynbee ....