to ask why the Sun and the Mail newspaper are so hated on here?

[missnamechange]

I have name changed for this as i am a regular MNer and i know i really ought to know this but i don't

i read the Sun every most days, i like the vacuous celeb gossip and their easy to understand way of writing (again - ) and the womens section, and the problem pages

what's so bad about it?

Because they are shit stirring lying liars who lie.

Nancy, given the amount of Daily Fail articles that are linked to, I think you may be partly right there.

The Daily Mail manipulates the emotions of its readers instead of informing them and allowing them to reach their own decisions.

The Sun should be no better than a comic, but unfortunatley people take it seriously. And Page 3 - that is every reason to never give it shelf space.

The Sun prints patronising stories in words of no more than 2 syllables. The Hillsborough saga was disgusting, plus it has vile page 3.
The DM makes up a load of bollocks, most of what it prints is pure bullshit around a story that may or may not be true. It is mysogynistic and verging on racist. Actually unless you are a white middle class male the DM will slate you.

How is page 3 any different from heat/Cosmo etc having torso of the week and the like?

You also have to look at the readibility of the papers.

The Sun has a reading age of 7
The Mail has a reading age of 9

While it is possible to conduct a nuanced discussion and introduce shades of grey when writing to a low reading age, it's far easier not to. Hence the Daily Fail cancer scares. It's written for a readership that does not have the numeracy skills to understand the statistics sufficiently to make any judgement other than the one in the headline, let alone understand the importance of sample size.

Heat and Cosmo are
a) Monthly
b) don't have the readership of the Sun
c) Getting torsos out in public is socially acceptable.

My MIL lives in a sort of rural ivory tower of antiquity, doesn't get out much.

However, she has all sorts of views on homosexuals, alcoholics, immigrants, single mothers, people on benefits etc etc despite the fact that she has likely never had a conversation with anyone from any of these categories.

The Daily Mail tells her all she needs to know.

I spend my whole time during her "I read an interesting article in the Mail...." talks looking like

I have no baldy clue how my DH turned out so normal!!

But if a blokes topless than surely it should be socially acceptable for a woman to be too? I thought feminism was about equality?

Slug - those figures are an invention

Speak for yourself Nancy. They are utter tosh, and if they weren't so malignant (
DM in particular) they would be a harmless diversion for the hard of brainpower.

Because they're bigoted, badly-written, ill-informed shit. Next question?

( Did used to have a soft spot for Hagar The Horrible, though ... )

One of my (graduate) friends bases all her understanding of immigration and social policy on the mail.... people just accept it word for word, it's quite terrifying.

Mud - I would imagine quite a lot of people on Mumsnet hate 'Heat' just as much, can't speak for cosmo as haven't read it.

I like to read the sun and the mail for the drama.

The Sun should have been shut down for the Hillsborough issue alone. Unspeakably vile. And OP you should be ashamed of yourself for not knowing this

I don't read heat, I occasionally flick through Cosmo but I honestly have never really thought of page 3 being offensive as I've always seen topless men in mags as well.
Mind you I've never really delved into feminism and until I discovered mumsnet didn't realise it was such a big deal to buy DD pink things!

Newspapers are like sunglasses, they influence they way you see the world.

If you see the world through the distorted eyes of a bigot, it won't be surprising that at some point you find yourself agreeing with such bigot.

The Sun and the Mail are soul destroying, stop reading that tosh and you will find out that there is actually a less morbid world outside. That things are actually not so bad, and that spending hours reading about people you don't know and who have no influence in your life is actually quite sad.

Because they are shit.

That is all.

It's easier to ask why people would want to read the misogynistic, xenophobic, dumbed down tosh that infects the pages of these particular periodicals - neither of which qualify as "newspapers" as far as I'm concerned.

Unless, of course, you prefer to receive your opinions ready heated to inflammatory temperatures, that is.

Nope Nancy. Used extensively when teaching reading recovery for adults.

I didn't know about Hillsborough and the sun either. I was born in 89 though!

Pootles, I think I may hate Heat even more than the Mail and Sun (and Express and Mirror too). One of my sisters keeps buying it, purely I think so she can tut about stuff in it. She seems unable to comprehend that I'm not actually interested!

Excellent papers???? compared to what??? to toilet paper?

here you go bit of education you won't find in the sun or mail