To not want to get up earlier, than on weekdays, on a Sunday to take my children to church. Particularily on Christmas day?

[twinklingfairy]

My thread titles are always rubbish. Half way down the thread I think, god I wish I hadn't called it that it is so misleading!

Anyway.
2 children 5yr and 3yr old.
We have to be up and out, like most other people, for school.
So 5 days out of 7 we rush around getting there on time (just).
Mine are like me. They Love their sleep!
I often have to wake them to get them going.
We normally take the car so we get there by the skin of our teeth.

I was brought up catholic and the nearest church is in the next town, 10min car journey.
So, to get there would mean getting up even earlier on a Sunday.

but, Sunday school is straight after and I don't feel I can just drop them there and not bother with the whole church thing.
Unless I take them in at 630 for an hour long service, thus making them late to bed by the time we are done. Only to hustle them out the door for 10am Sunday School.

AIBU to tell my parents, no, sorry it is just not that important to me. I am a lapsed catholic. Gave it up the minute I left home.
My dad told me tonight that we had to 'talk' about it.
I asked was that one of those 'talks' where I don't get to 'talk' he said , No.
He seemed pleasant enough about it, but I have a foreboding feeling, dun dun duuuun.

It has come up because I have been very brave and told them that we are not coming to them for christmas day. That we will be spending it at home so that the children have a relaxed day.
My mum tried to guilt me into coming in (well, it worked last year) but I withstood the onslaught and braved my way through all 3 attempts (your sister will be very disappointed. Your father will miss you. I would like to see the children on Christmas day too)
But I have been tripped by the final hurdle.
Will you be bringing them in to Mass?

Doof, wallop < I have fallen>

My line was
If my children don't get up until 8 am on a normal day, and I doubt they will on christmas day (though, I may be wrong of course) then are you suggesting that I say, Yes, Your Santa sacks are in the Living room but you can't look at them cos you have to get dressed as quickly as you can, we have to go to church!

Or, yes yes dear that is lovely. Isn't Santa nice! Now eat some food and leave it all alone, we have to go, Now!

It doesn't seem fair to me?

Their line
It is Christmas day, Twinkling.
Christs day.
It is not about the presents?

AIBU
They have a point it is Christs day afterall
Or am I being stupidly weak

Must admit, our church (Baptist) have a Christmas day service at 11am which they a "Family Christmas Chat" its really "show and tell" for the kids along with mince pies and a cup of tea! The kids love it'cause they can show off what they have had from Santa, and the parents, grandparents etc have a couple of hymms and a few prayers and enjoy a few minutes peace with their friends!! We are church with a very modern outlook! i wouldn't make it to an early service, and the kids would never sit through one anyway without whining, so do what you wish, not what is being dictated by MIL.

We are semi-practising Catholic. DH is non-practising C of E. We have always compromised at Christmas by going to 6.30 pm Mass on Christmas Eve. That way, we have done our Christmas Mass and DH has come with us (only time he really does, unless it's a particular family Mass). It's a lovely service, with lots of families. I, too, would not get up for 9 am Mass and, anyway, DH definitely wouldn't come.

Yes is there not a Christmas eve kids'
Service?? Even my (incredibly rural) parents have that - though if you don't want to go, don't

haha, no I wondered if the tree thing was the whole follow the star thing that the three kings did.
But it seems that it was a pagan thing to worship trees that the christian church let them keep or took over for their own ends.
Judaism online
Makes me not like the whole christmas thing at all.
The site says it is about celebration the attack of Jews from 1446.
Or awful pagan rituals of making one chosen victim pay for the sins of many. It sounds awful.

So wanksock (euch horrid name by the way ) how do you celebrate it?

Tell them you are going to the christmas eve mass and then invite them to stop over at yours for a late breakfast/see the grandkids on their way back from mass on christmas morning

Dont go if you dont want to. What is the point in attending mass if you are only going to please your parents. Its stupid. The whole point of going is because you want to be there.

I was in a similar situation to yourself a few years ago. I put my foot down. Various things have since happened within our large extended family and the result is that my mum is now a partially lapsed catholic aswell even though she was a very strict committed catholic a few years ago. To be honest, I think part of her committment stemmed from her strict upbringing and the fear of god her parents put into her if she didnt attend mass. She kind of passed that onto me and my siblings until we started to stand up to her and as a result of various events that have happened since, I think she is more round to our way of thinking now ie, its nice to go if you want to but its also ok if you dont.

wagonwheel You are right. It would be stupid. Sometimes ok most times I give in to it for an easy life.

cantspel nice idea but that is why they want to control and manipulate me into coming in to theirs. Mum likes things focused around her house. She is completely not comfortable at mine for more than half an hour. Unless she has a task to focus on. General visiting is not her thing.
It's not on their way, it is a total detour that they just won't make, or will avoid.

I will definaitely looking into what the church over the road does.
bubby your church sounds lovely.

My parents will, no doubt, think that it is just lazyness that stops me coming in to town.
I would just like to find something that they/we can enjoy with friends.
Ooh! Actually, we have been going to some Messy church gatherings in the village next to ours. It has been a lovely way to spend a morning every month. The children have been invited to a carol service next weekend where they will be presented with bibles for their attendance. I wonder what their christmas service is like.
I must remember to ask my friend tomorrow.

ooh, or facebook...............

Why are you telling yourself off for being a bad catholic if you readily admit you aren't a catholic any more? I know it's not that easy to shake off a religion (we weren't brought up that religious, but culturally I can't shake off my proddiness) but maybe you need to think about why the church and your parents have such a hold on you. You are an adult now and you get to make the decisions.

It sounds like you have Catholic guilt

Don't go if it's not you thing. You're an adult don't be pressurised by your parents.

We're kind of Christian, having been raised Catholic I just couldn't land that much guilt on another generation, and always take the kids to some kind of Christian Church service on Christmas Eve. I'm not particularly fussed which denomination as long as it's a child friendly service including the story of Christmas, a crib and a few nice Christmas Carols.

IME the Catholic church isn't particularly child friendly, you could probably find some other church near you that would do something around 5/6 Christmas Eve which is perfect and then you don't have to feel guilty on Christmas morning (might not help the parent situation though1).

My parents always took us to midnight mass, I didn't even know Catholics had Christmas Day services! My mother went to a Christmas morning service (she is CoE my father is Catholic). Both my parents are pretty religious, and we were all sent to Catholic school (just primary thank goodness), and three out of four of us were confirmed Catholic (one of my sisters was confirmed CoE)

I am the atheist in my family, I have two siblings I'd probably describe as agnostic, my sister will go to church with my mother when visiting, I think my brother is now completely lapsed. Then my big sister is an ordained CoE chaplain.

My parents didn't take it well when I told them that I wouldn't be going to church any more and that our children woudln't be baptised, but it actually made things much easier to have it in the open. I am sure my mother prays for us (I know my big sister does!) but they do accept that it's my decision to make.

If you consider yourself to be lapsed then why are you taking your children to Sunday school or services? I thought that Catholic services were relatively early in the morning because of the no eating before communion rule, 9 am seems about standard. I remember sitting through many a service with a rumbling tummy!

I'm one of a big family of Catholics too. I don't believe. My siblings have various degrees of lapsed, semi lapsed, go to church sometimes etc.

My kids were brought up to know bible stories and have a very strong moral code but we didn't go to church outside of school, brownie, guide events.

I never pretended to my parents that i took them to church. I didn't apologise and I didn't explain. They never challenged me. My brother on the other hand would do things like get his kids to phone my dad asking for a rosary for Christmas. He fooled nobody and my dad was quite vocal about being honest - he respected my way a lot more than my brother's.

However, I find it a bit hard to understand why, if you do believe, you wouldn't want to take your children to church on Christmas day.

You don't have to do stuff you don't want to just to please your parents. You're a grown up.

But you may want to take your children to church each week if you want to get them into a faith school later. www.mumsnet.com/tch/4.gif

No hope of ever putting my children into a catholic school. There is not one anywhere near us and if we moved I am not sure it would even be on my options list, unless the local school was rough as....
Pretty unlikely that we will be moving anywhere though.

lifechanger you are probably right.

I do believe whatdoIknow but not enough to hussle us out the door earlier on a Sunday than any other day, to get my children there. Espesh on Christmas day.
Though define 'believe'. I am not sure how strongly I 'believe' any of it.
I mean they doctored the dates of Jesus birth to fit in with what they wanted and it seems to me that many of the stories were also doctored when the second testament was made? I don't know much so correct me if I am wrong but there are so many inconsistencies, how do you know that it is not all some old fable that has taken grip.
But there is no hope I would ever get into that conversation with anyone in my family.
I did once with my eldest brother, the one who has turned his back on it all completely and he had me baffled with his responses. Too clever by far, that one

Y'see this is where I have a problem. Because if you believed in any way, there are certain days of the year when you would want to go to Mass (Good Friday, Easter Sunday, Christmas etc). If you can't be bothered to drag your carcass out of the house for mass on Christmas Day then I question the belief.

I mean, if you don't believe that's fine and dandy but 'hustling yourself out the door' is sort of key to Catholicism...

You should do what you want. We go to church but we don't have to get up early. Also our church has never had a Christmas day service. Our pastor
has always said that Christmas Day should be a family day.

Sorry the YABU from me is because how the heck can you get up at 8 am most days. My oldest two kids have left for school by then (seniors), one leaves at 7:30 the other at 7:50 (same school, but it seems to work for them both). My youngest leaves at 8:15.
I think your kids must be going to bed too late.
How are they ever going to cope with the world of work?

The Church issue is a matter of personal preference. We actually get a bit of a lie in on Sundays even if someone is involved in a Sunday morning service, and at Christmas we don't have Church until the afternoon after Midnight mass.

hmm, I don't see why you can't have some form of belief without the need to go to church every sunday.
I feel guilt that I ought to be going to church, but because it is not a part of our lives, it is easy to forget and because I am not sure that I want the whole catholic guilt and pressure that I grew up with to be a part of my childrens lives....
DH is not bothered about the whole thing and doesn't see that there is any need for attending anything so long as we bring our children up to do right by others, respect others, be kind so on and so forth.
I have to say I agree with him.
It was a secondary part of our lives that we resented and I didn't get much understanding of the whole thing despite 4 years in a catholic school and catechism every sunday.

'hustling yourself out the door' is sort of key to Catholicism...
Really??

mummytime we live near the school. Sounds like your guys have to get busses?

DH is catholic, I'm cofe - we do the 6.30pm midnight mass on Christmas eve (complete with me moaning about it not being at midnight but secretly chuffed it's not at midnight) and leave it at that. Do they have a Christmas eve service?

Yes, church attendance is a key part of the Catholic faith, or hustling yourself out the door, as you put it.

Like I said, it's no skin off anyone's nose if you've lapsed, no one would criticise you for that (except your parents!) but you can't profess to be one if you don't want to do the basics. And it is a basic requirement.

Well, GwendolineMaryLacedWithBrandy, I know lots of people who call themselves Catholics, and they all differ widely. I have friends who do the whole thing, church every week, all the rituals, very anti-abortion, very literal about believing what the Bible says, what the Pope says, all the rest of it. I have another friend who goes to church but is very pro-abortion, which seems to me a bit weird, but she would say it's none of my business. And I know people who call themselves Catholics but almost never go to Church, people who don't call themselves Catholics but do go to church because their husband goes, and so on and so forth. I mean, who gets to decide this stuff? It seems to me if someone calls themselves a Catholic, then they're a Catholic.

Sunnydelight - I would dispute that Catholic churches are not child friendly. Ours has children's liturgy during the first part of the service, the children are taken out and they do some activities based on the gospel that the adults will be listening too in church that week, this helps as they do not have to sit still/ be quiet throughout the whole of the service. It also improves their understanding of the faith. At the family service there are always children running around, babies crying- no one bats an eyelid. Jesus said let the children come to me, do not keep them away, so it would not be very Christian to have a mass which did not include the children.

As for Christmas, our church has mass at 11, so that gives the kids plenty of time to open presents. It is me who finds it inconvenient though, with the cooking of the lunch!! There are alternatives - the Christmas Eve service is lovely, with all the children being encouraged to dress up in nativity costumes. We have even been known to go to the Anglican church for Christingle.

The issue really is that you feel obliged to go to please your parents. I think you need to be honest about what you feel. You are an adult and you can make up your own mind. My children are being brought up as Catholic and I would like them to carry on in the faith when they are adults, but I accept I cannot force it. If they did not want to go to mass on Christmas day when they are older than so be it. You need to somehow get that through to your parents.