to think that yesterday's strikes were a bit of a non-event?

[grovel]

Whether you supported them or not?

The private sector is not really homogenous enough to talk about "the private sector". People working for SME's are very different to people in large companies. They probably have more in common with a lower paid public worker in terms of wages, lack of control etc. Your views depend on the people you know. We compare ourselves with those around us. I see people in private sector with high wages, bonuses, cars, mortgages paid off early. Yes, still. They don't deserve or need my pity for their future. They'll be fine. It is the poorly paid in both sectors who have commonalities.

Calyx and jolly I agree too! I accept that my pension will not stay as it is, but what I do want is a transparent and fair process in its redesign. At the moment I feel that the government is not giving us any sort of truthful information of where their calculations have come from, and seem to have no intention to either. I also completely accept the pay freeze for the next few years while times are tough, it is my longterm future that I am worried about.

Twocotbeds I pay taxes. And you are a numpty.
You are making a separate point about contributing to the economy but it is factually inaccurate (ie you're wrong) to say pub s workers do not pay taxes.

Agree as well born!

So why are we all being tarred with the same brush? The message needs to get out that the number of private sector workers who have decent pensions is incredibly small rather than the unions coming out with this crap comparing them. I know a awful lot of people who have put more into their pensions than it is worth now. But that doesn't get reported.

Agree too, Born. I think the media is helping to create the 'us and them' feeling around it all.

True, I think until I started to listen to teachers on threads such as this I didn't really understand the issues. I think I was a bit jealous of the pension arrangements that some public sector workers "seem" to be offered. I hope that some teachers can also have empathy with the small business. When its your capital at risk if a business fails it helps to focus the mind!

Wow, twocotbeds ignorance is breathtaking, public sector workers don't pay taxes? Brilliant.

Pensions were not structured or funded to allow people to spend nearly the same proportion of their working life in retirement as working. Something will have to change as it's simply not affordable to have no changes to retirement ages and pension benefits when life expectancy is increasing in excess of 1 year every 5 years. Someone starting work in their twenties working for forty years could feasibly live another 30 years after they retire according to current statistics. It is absolutely ludicrous to have a static pension age.

I can understand how upset public sector workers are at having to work longer for less, but it's simply not acceptable to leave the taxpayer with such an uncapped liability, when the economy is in such a state. We really don't want to end up being the next Greece.

I have real empathy for small business owners, they keep the economy going and often at little personal gain. However we all (ok those of us who are able to make career choices rather than having to take anything to put food on the table) make decisions on our type of work based on the pros and cons of the different sectors (whether private, public or self-employed). When one of your pros gets taken away, you are going to try and fight it.

Its why I find it very difficult to have empathy with some teachers who are laying on the hard done by routine with a trowel. Not all, but some definitely don't have a clue and it makes them sound like arrogant arses. Perhaps if they did realise they could argue their case better.

At the moment, people talk about "public" and "private" as if you are somehow born different. People just apply for a job that suits them, or that is advertised. They don't usually make definate decision about it. I teach. I love teaching. Therefore i have little choice but to be in the public sector. I have no control. I can't negotiate my terms. I can't look for a different employer. I can't refuse any benefits won, or indeed earn them through my performance. That is why I have found all the recent vitriol so difficult. For the individuals on both sides this should not be personal, because very few of us have any real say or control.

You could also say the same for some private sector workers re. what the public sector is actually like nicey!

Why are people banging on about teachers?

It's about ALL of the public sector workers.

Well said hockey.

This was not a teachers' strike though. It was general. This is too often forgotten.

Because the teachers seem to be the ones who are particularly irritating and out of touch (goodness knows why) and have a particular good deal even after the proposed changed.

MrsJRT, I think the point twocotsbeds is trying to make is that the taxes paid by public sector worker's do not really 'add' to the government's coffers because the money came from there in the first place.

So for example, you get paid £1000 a month and out of that, you give your child £50 but then tax him £20. Can you really say your income is now £1020? Not really.... You might as well have just given him £30.

A more accurate description would probably be that the public sector do not create wealth. Only the private sector does that.

HOWEVER....the private sector needs the public sector to support their wealth creation, they cannot do it alone and therefore they must pay taxes towards that. And that's why it's very important to understand that:

a) The public sector is hugely important
b) If the private sector is in the shitter then it's only logical the public sector follows suit.

Thank you Niceguy2 (it saves me typing the same argument but I was going to use the example using cakes!)

This strike was pointless.
There are enough public sector workers who thought it was pointless.
Let alone private sector workers.

That telegraph piece a few posts up.
Are teachers really retiring on 16 grand a year?

no not at all with so many services disrupted and schools closed how was it a non event

i did not see that many on picket lines but there were a number of big marches the one in central london there were many taking part

according to some press it was a non event which of course has nothing to do with their right wing views

I had 'strikers' working from home and emailing me at work.

We understand the argument JD and Niceguy2. It is however still inaccurate and incredibly offensive to tell a worker that they do not pay taxes, when the said taxes come off their pay every month. Before this government got in I didn't think of 'private sector workers' and 'public sector workers', I just thought there were workers. Not much solidarity left I think - oh, I wonder in whose interests it might be to turn us against eachother?

You were doing so well until that nicey. Generalising. I think teaching unions have been less vocal than others. There are several of them though, so the effect is greater perhaps. Teachers are more vocal because they get more insults and hassle.

dancingmustard - not unless they were senior management! BBC news says ave is £10000 -which takes in management roles who will be on more and part-time staff/women who've had a break in service who will be on much less.