to get the woman to remove her shoes or is she BU by being rude?

[teddiegoestopeckham]

my BIL came over today with his new partner to meet me and DH (his brother). They came over for a few hours for a late lunch/tea.

Anyway i open the door for them (BIL already holding his coat :) ). anyway all the hellos, hugs, come in etc.
BIL automatically takes his shoes off and puts some of the slippers we have out for guests.
She looks very shocked by this and doesn't make a move to either take off her shoes or even ask if i would like her to take her shoes off (i am barefoot)

Anyway when I realise that she isn't taking her shoes off and asks her nicely and politely if she would mind taking her shoes off and if she would like we have slippers for guests (we have a pile like the ones BIL put on and they are very obvious)

BIL looks a bit awkward at his point and then she says' 'no, thank you' and walks though.

I was just stunned and so was BIL obviously.

But it would have been rude to say anything so i just let her carry on. And told DH when he came in about 15mins later not to say anything.

I'm japanese - and to me leaving your shoes on when entering someones house is a no no. I have managed over the years to be okay if someone just walks in to pick something up or drop something off. but if someone is coming in properly. They take their shoes off.

Even forgetting the culture I and this comes from - sure it is rude to reply like that when you are a guest into someones home?

or AIBU in asking people to remove their shoes upon entering??
I'm doubting both now...

What sort of host tries to press her culture onto her guest

Don't you mean what sort of guest tries to press her culture on her host?

(A. one who doesn't want to be invited again)

Hullygully as I think I may already have said, I always remove my shoes as I personally dislike wearing shoes indoors. So yes I would remove them in Japan.

Is the OP in Japan?

so belgo, you go to Japan and keep your shoes on because you are The Guest?

x post

So why not remove them for a Japanese person in England?

Good post Stealth!

Have read a few of these shoe threads now and I wonder if there is a generational divide? To me it's unthinkably rude to wear shoes in the house unless specifically told by the host to do so. I've travelled all over and have got used to the fact that in most countries you don't wear outdoor shoes indoors. But my grandfather will happily tramp round his house in shoes all day long (although, to be fair, he wears wellingtons outside as a farmer so really they are indoor shoes). Would be interested to know how old posters are who say they don't like removing shoes?

this is also not just a one off visitor. it s someone who will probably be visiting over and over again. Might as well get the rules straight from the outset.

'So why not remove them for a Japanese person in England?'

I don't think there should be an expectation from the host for the guest to conform to her culture.

'You are not showing respect to a god, you are showing respect for that person's belief in a god '

actually I think when you take your shoes off to enter a mosque, you do so to show respect to GOd, not to show respect to other people in the mosque. But that really is a theological question that is not easy to answer.

YANBU. Hosts should make their guests feel comfortable and not impose unnecessary rules.

hmm... I'd have no trouble with your request OP, but I'm leaning towards yabu.

Maybe she had verrucas or giant bunions and didn't really want to explain/display?
There are people on MN who get very agitated about feet ever being visible or out of shoes in front of others, too; the exact opposite cultural/personal preference to OP's is just as prevalent in the UK.

OP shouldn't complain that it was offensive to her culture if she doesn't know for a fact that her guest knows all about her cultural tradition.

I just think there should be a little compromise both ways. Guests should be accommodated, too.

But you'd remove them in Japan you said.

So for you cultural mores only have to be respected within strict geographical boundaries, can you not see that that is a little odd?

I wonder how many people on here expect people to behave properly in their house, because it's their house, but at the same time would expect to go to someone else's house and still act how they feel they should act, because they are "the guest" and therefore shouldn't be objected to in the slightest?

If you are a guest in someone's home then I can't possibly imagine why you would not want to be a good guest. If you insist on having your own way despite it being clear that your host is not happy then you are abusing their invitation and their hospitality.

Obviously there are limits - if someone was to insist that you worshiped their god while in their home, or that you ate meat if you are a vegetarian, then you would be quite within your rights to refuse, but in those circumstances you wouldd probably want to simply leave.

But removing your shoes really isn't that big a deal - barring a small minority of people who might have a genuine issue with it for medical/phobia reasons - so why would you not just do it? It doesn't matter whether it is for cultural reasons or because your host has brand-new cream carpets - it is important to your host and doesn't affect you in any meaningful way so why sour the visit by insisting on your own way?

Maybe she's a witch from the Roald Dahl story! Was she wearing gloves too?

No I don';t see that as being odd. It is totally normal to follow the norms of the country you are in.

Hullygully I have to go and get back to my essay! Stop distracting me!

Anyway, can't talk about shoes any more, am losing the will to live.

OP, I think she was unbelievably and unspeakably rude to you.

OP - your guest was being very rude.

If people don't remove their shoes in my house, I won't say anything. However, I will be annoyed and they won't be invited back.

YANBU. Doesn't matter what the request was, if you ask someone to do or not do something in your house and they refuse, they are being rude. The 'lighting up a fag' analogy someone gives above is a very good one.

I'm finding all the snarky comments about furrin ways, skanky slippers/anally washing slippers etc very unpleasant. And shoes off in the house is not exclusively Japanese or otherwise 'foreign'; lots of people do it in the UK too.

OP, maybe your BIL needs to talk to her before they come round again (he obviously knew at the time, going by your description of his reaction, how rude she was being). That is, if you want to have her round again.

'ALL SLIPPERS ARE WASHED AFTER EVERY WEAR AND PLACED IN PLASTIC BAGS'

you need to get on over to that bonkers towel washing thread. There is an army of people on each side, skanks v. hygiene loons. You'll fit right in.

YANBU

Even if she didn't want to use the guest slippers, she should have removed her shoes. I think it shows a lack of respect for your culture/home.
I would have thought your BIL would have told his partner beforehand, to avoid this situation.

"There is no right or wrong answer I'm afraid."

there is clearly a right answer- using your good manners in someone else's home, where their rules apply.

would you whip out a bacon butty at a barmitzvah?
would you light up a fag in a nursery school?
would you bring a steak and kidney pie to vegetarian pot-luck dinner?
would you wear a bikini top to afternoon tea?

no?
then you ought to take your shoes off and suck it up.
nasty woman wouldn't be welcome in my home with behaviour like that. YANBU.

I hate being asked to take my shoes off - I do it, but it makes me really uncomfortable.

The only places I take my shoes off are my house and my mum's (which I grew up in) so to do it anywhere else feels a little bit like I've just been asked to get partially undressed.

Like I said I do it because it's their house, but I then avoid going back.

YANBU. Your gaff, your rules.

And BIL should dump new partner pronto, as this is obviously a Bad Sign regarding her character.

YANBU, I prefer people to take their outdoor shoes off before coming in. We live rurally, even if they have just come from car, they will still have walked on the muddy drive.

If going to someones house for party etc & I know they'll want shoes off I bring thick socks or slippersocks, I like to be comfy

What I really get annoyed about is people (FIL, BIL, I mean you) who expect me to take my shoes off in their house but don't take their shoes off in mine

wouldnt you 'shoes on' ppl feel rather embaressed marching into someones home where the cultural norm is 'shoes off'. Everyone else has removed shoes and you are the one insisting keeping your outdoor wear on.
Weird.

"wouldnt you 'shoes on' ppl feel rather embaressed marching into someones home where the cultural norm is 'shoes off'. Everyone else has removed shoes and you are the one insisting keeping your outdoor wear on.
Weird."

I don't think they care Kal, that is the nature of the beast...