Mother hurling abuse on tram, do you think she should be arrested?

[himynameisfred]

Here is the video of it happening.

Do you think the police should respond?

I would at the least expect her to be cautioned or charged with breach of the peace, this kind of aggressive, ugly behaviour is unacceptable.

I should think she'd be charged with a public disorder offence. I don't think we can say her child should be taken off her though.

I imagine she is an MNer, the number of times she said "Fuck".

Would just like to say if that was a random attack, she is a terrible disgusting woman and I think anyone who thinks like that is VILE.

HOWEVER - that video is just a few minutes long and doesn't show what led up to her acting like that.

Did anyone see a programme on bbc3 a while ago called 'Unemployed and over here? or something like that. Basiclaly about people looking for jobs. With Romanian family I was disgusted at what several 'friends' on facebook wrote about it. Basically 'coming over here taking our jobs' or to that effect.

Someone could of angered her and she was just mad and let her true feelings out, She didn't shoot someone for being black, or direct her attack at anyone in particular. She just seemed like an stupid chav who was lucky she didn't get a smack!

I found that absolutely shocking and upsetting.

I live in Croydon. My children are mixed race. I can't imagine how upsetting it must have been to the people on that tram to have to listen to her tirade of hate.

I wonder if I would have said something to her if I'd been there? I hope so.

Oh, and all credit to that woman who challenged her.

What an utterly hateful woman.

I know people who think that way, sadly. However, they are in the minority.

Pendeen if she is causing alarm or distress to people in public, then that is a public order offence, if there is a racial element, then it is racially aggravated. There does not need to be an actual threat.

As Notinmykitchen says no threat is needed for a public order offence
www.cps.gov.uk/news/fact_sheets/racially_aggravated_offences/

So simply shouting or swearing is illegal?

Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986:

5.-(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he,
(a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or
(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation
which is threatening, abusive or insulting,
within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment,
alarm or distress thereby.
(2) An offence under this section may be committed in a
public or a private place, except that no offence is committed
4 c. 64 Public Order Act 1986
PART I where the words or behaviour are used, or the writing, sign or
other visible representation is displayed, by a person inside a
dwelling and the other person is also inside that or another
dwelling.
(3) It is a defence for the accused to prove-
(a) that he had no reason to believe that there was any
person within hearing or sight who was likely to be
caused harassment, alarm or distress, or
(b) that he was inside a dwelling and had no reason to
believe that the words or behaviour used, or the writing,
sign or other visible representation displayed, would
be heard or seen by a person outside that or any other
dwelling, or
(c) that his conduct was reasonable.
(4) A constable may arrest a person without warrant if-
(a) he engages in offensive conduct which the constable
warns him to stop, and.
(b) he engages in further offensive conduct immediately or
shortly after the warning.
(5) In subsection (4) " offensive conduct " means conduct the
constable reasonably suspects to constitute an offence under this
section, and the conduct mentioned in paragraph (a) and the
further conduct need not be of the same nature.
(6) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable
on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the
standard scale.

Now we have a name... Emma West. I wonder what she does for a living, could people like her be in charge of my children? I feel physically sick.

Pendeen

In theory yes- if the shouting and swearing causes alarm and distress.

I'm shocked at those who think the swearing was the objectionable element of her tirade. Did you miss the bit where she specifically tells black British people to fuck off and go back to 'their own countries' and repeatedly shouts 'You ain't British, you're black'??? This is not someone who has private reservations about current governmental immigration policy (which of course she is perfectly entitled to have, though not to scream abusively in public situations) this is an unreconstructed racist.

I'm a little astounded by this. There must be something far wrong to be shouting like that in the first place. However, judging by her poor, poor boys reaction this isn't the first incident.

Although I'll accept people have opinions completely alien to me and I will stand up for freedom of speech this isn't the case here. Congrats to the tram passengers though for not smacking her in the mouth, possibly because a child was involved but how deeply upsetting for them.

If this is 'her' Britain can I move?

Exactly! I was born here, my parents were both born here.. where do people like her want me to F* off back to??? I wish there was somewhere. There was another similar incident caught on someones camera phone - wonder if its the same woman?

www.liveleak.com/view?i=715_1314132581LiveLeak.com

Quite worrying the number of people expressing more concern for her language / shouting than the content of her rant. Presumably because they could actually picture the former happening to them and their precious children (ie someone shouting and swearing, heaven forfend) but not the latter (because we is white innit!)

Easy to minimise actions when they don't affect you.

Someone should make her trace her family tree back to when her ancestors came over here and took our jobs. Bloody Saxons, place was all right until they came over and sullied the purity of the Angles' race etc etc. Then she should be divided up neatly into sections, according what percentage of her is Celt, Saxon, Angle, Norman, Roman etc and each bit can go back where it came from. Or she can grow up and shut up.

I mean the number of people on this thread. Conversely (and ironically) the reactions of the people in the video itself - idiot aside - is quite heartening.

I thought when I first saw this that the woman had to come from New Addington, and it seems that she does. My partner teaches in a primary school there and racism and racial tension doesn't seem to be out of the ordinary.

I don't know if i feel more upset by that woman'' appalling racist behaviour, or the evidence on some of these threads that people still think racism is not such a big deal.

I'm sorry to be a bleeding heart liberal, but this woman cannot be solely to blame for her actions. Everybody pities her child and predicts that he may end up as an abusive racist, but the woman herself is young, and her opinions did not come from nowhere.
She is horribly, shamefully ill-informed, and blindly prejudiced, and must have learnt these attitudes from her own parents and those around her. She obviously has anger issues and boundary issues, and from the way her mouth was moving, definitely seemed under the influence of something. She is a sad person who probably has a sad life. Of course, she should be stopped and cautioned and every effort made to help her to see how wrong she is, but I cannot condemn her or say she is a terrible disgusting woman. She obviously comes from a terrible background and has had a really poor education.
If she is arrested and her child taken into care, will anybody explain to her that as the person above who referred to angles and saxons pointed out, that she is simply wrong to say person a belongs in a country any more than person b? Will anyone help her figure out what the real cause of her anger is?
I know I will get slated for this....

yeah - I fear the need to slate you a bit, mrsbabookaloo

Of course everyone is influenced by their upbringing. But as an adult you are responsible for your own views and behaviour and there are plenty of other rational and fair influences around should you choose to look into them.

I know you're trying to see behind her actions, but sometimes people choose to hang onto bigotry, and being rational about where it comes from isn't going to help them. I fear this woman is one such case - she hardly responded to anything rational on this small clip we've seen of her life. She wants to hate, and hate she will

I can't get sound on my computer at the moment but I get the gist of what was said from this thread and lip reading a bit.
That poor poor little boy- what chance does he have?
Yes I believe she should be arrested and given a very hard time over her attitude and behaviour. Even if she continues to have her vile views she must learn to keep her ignorant mouth shut.
As for her little boy - as I said what chance does he have if he continues to live with her.