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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this woman is putting her child in a very dangerous position with her racist rantings on public transport?

380 replies

TartyMcFarty · 28/11/2011 10:28

YouTube clip here

OP posts:
fastweb · 29/11/2011 15:11

Why does it matter if she is mentally ill?

Becuase I am a pragmatist. MH cost money when you treat it or leave it untreated.

But where you seek appropirate sanctions based on specific elements like MH you increase the opportunity for curtailing repeat performances of anti social or violent behavior.

Thus reducing the number of victims created and added to the pool. Which in turn aids reducing the costs involved of managing and treating the fall out of victims' personal crisises and on a larger scale exacerbated social tensions.

Her racist rant is just that - are you trying to find mitigating circumstances and make her a 'victim'?

I have no interest in seeking minimisation.

I know on a personal level that regardless of how aware you are that somebody has dimished capisity to hit the brake between brian and gob or keep their hands to themsleves you still scar to the same extent under a torrent of bile and your skin does not devolp a special immunity agaist bruising or tearing.

I also know that if you insist that victim is required to deem quasi irrelevant, unadressable and require a muted emotional response to what was done/said to them on the basis that the person abusing them was impaired, you run a considerable risk of compounding the negative effects of the original act of abusive behavior.

There were verbal and visual clues in that video that leave room for the possibility of MH issue or substance abuse being an element in her inhibition. IF that turns out to be the case I would prefer them to be taken into consideration becuase I would prefer a stance to be taken that makes it a priority to aviod another tramfull of people being racially abused and placing her child in the best possible position to aviod following in his mother's foot steps leading to yet more racially abused people.

Why would any one want to 'help' her?

Because I am fundamentally very selfish.

The above is the result of a context made up the factors such as

-I don't like being abused and hurt

-I don't like seeing other people abused and hurt

-I don't like being left to deal with an abusive and hurting ill person in
lieu of professional help, support and treatment. Not least becuase it is the hardest job I have ever loathed. She is miserable, and both we her family and the gen pub have little to no protection against unwilling pariticpation in that misery as the whipping boys.

Even if the woman in the vid is nothing more than a bog standard gobshite I'd still like investment in whatever is deemed most suitable and useful in achieveing the aim of her keeping her trap shut and not splattering the world at large with her venom. If that takes anger management, CBT, some kind of 12 steps for gobshites, alongside sanctions....so be it.

Whatever it takes to chip away at the social and personal cost of anti social, abusive, violent and criminal behaviors.

And yes I know it would be expensive, even when the savings created by preventative and longer term management are taken into account. I just happen to think it is a price worth paying. Although I am not going to hold my breath in anticipation of mass agreeement of that evaluation.

flatbread · 29/11/2011 15:25

Fastweb, see I don't think the two as linked. MH issues have nothing to do with being racially abusive.

I don't think with MH treatment she will get 'cured' and start thinking that all people are equal.

I am a liberal, but in this case, she is 34, so responsible for her own thoughts and actions. I got the sense from the video that she somehow feels she just 'deserves' things,without working for them, and can mouth off whenever [ ok, I may be reading too much into it Grin]

What bugs me that the black woman who is working is probably paying taxes to subsidize the racist, vile woman and her child. Angry

fastweb · 29/11/2011 16:06

MH issues have nothing to do with being racially abusive

MH issue relate to the inhibition in expressiing views in a provocative manner rather than the views held.

Help relates to minimising the elements that create the lack of inhibition rather than minimising the views. Call it supervision if help doesn't hit the right note.

MH issues can magnify views. In the sense that somebody who is a 4 on the racist scale when well, can rocket up to a 10+ with knobs on when ill, due to a massive increase in paranioa, rage, gradiosity etc.

I will leave room for cases where illness temporaily leaves people expressing views they absolutly don't hold when well. Cos my knowledge of MH is far from absolute.

However IME what I have seen myself and heard about from professionals is a lack of inhibition leading to people expressing views that are reflection or a magnification of those held by the person, while they are currently in the grip of a bout of uncontrolled ill health.

I don't know how you would go about changing people's fundamental views. As far as I know we have yet to discover an effective method of achieving that for considerable numbers of people. Possibly preventative is the best hope there.

But there are things we can about the lowering of inhibition for some of the people, some of the time with a varying degree of success.

Finding the right med cocktail, creating stablisation to the point where med resistance is less likely to be an issue and offering not too superficial or infrequant on going support/supervision to make sure the cocktail can be adjusted (MH is not always a static state) before a relapse is unaviodable and med resistance is not creeping in.

See what I mean? With the inhibition issue back under control there is a far better chance of avioding a new set of the gen pub being abused. Even though the person who stood charged with racial abuse is still rather BNP leaning.

And where you can't control the illness to the extent that inhibition can be restored, there needs to be a greater number of acute and chronic residential resources to aviod harm/abuse for the sake of the ill person, their immeidiate family/support system and the public as a whole.

maypole1 · 29/11/2011 16:21

This lady should be slapped with a haddock and her child removed

fastweb · 29/11/2011 17:02

www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk/Tram-Experience-racist-YouTube-video-rant-woman/story-13987676-detail/story.html

extracts

"The 34-year-old mother of two did not enter a plea to the charge, and has been remanded in custody while psychiatric reports are prepared."

"Croydon Magistrates' Court heard today that West has been suffering from depression since she was 18, receiving treatment at facilities in Purley and West Croydon."

Not proof postive that MH issues, medication or substance abuse contributed to the episode on the tram.

However it does support leaving room for the possibility that they were elements.

Unipolar can be misdiagnosed or go on to devolop into Bipolar, which I'd guess is one of several possibilities being explored.

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