to not worry about teachers aged 60+ in the classroom

[NotaTeacherBasher]

No teacher bashing, please.

A recurrent theme in the discussions about the changes to teachers' pensions is that teachers will not be able to retire at 55 any more. They will need to work until they are 65+ if they want their full pension.

Just like everyone else.

So what's the problem with that provided they are fit to work? Obviously some won't be able to and will, presumably, be able to retire on ill health grounds if they're not.

I think there's a difference between being "medically unfit," which implies a specific, serious condition, and generally unsuitable for the physical demands of running a class of 30 small children.
Same goes for nurses - only worse in a way.

I'll tell you in 30 years time! It's certainly not exclusive to teaching and I'm not claiming special treatment, but it seems a disservice to the children if they are taught by someone who is simply clinging on for their pension, having lost all passion and enthusiasm for the job.

But that's no necessarily all teachers in their 60s and there are plenty of other jobs that could use the same argument.

teachers retirement age was never 55 but 65 (or 60 for women when they could get their state pension at that age)

It's not just teachers. A lot of low paid public sector workers have physically demanding jobs - care workers for example. Working til 68 prob isn't such a prob if you have a desk job but I wouldn't fancy moving people about at that age.

That's true, teachers who retire at 55 get a worse deal (although I believe the age for a full pension is 60 under the pre 2007 conditions). And yet they choose to take less money and retire. Why is that?

Well I'm a teacher aged 27 and to claim my full pension I have to work until I'm 70.
Seventy.
On a daily basis I and my colleagues have to restrain, chase after and separate children. I've been spat on and called a cunt. The physical side is hard enough with 11 year old solid little boys at my current age. I certianly won't be doing this when I'm seventy.
The only place teachers are fit for at this age is a nice comfy private school or a school in an "easier" area.
"Just like everyone else" is nosensical comment.
OP do YOU have to restrain children in this way, while at the same time aware that if you execute a restraining technique incorrectly you could be sued?

can you imagine someone who is 65+ taking control of a class full of 16 year olds who don't want to be there. A 65+ person trying to break up a fight, a 65+ person working into the night to plan, mark, create reports, ofsted.....

can you imagine a 66+ person being able to physically lift a patient? (its not just teachers.....)

Apart from the physical aspects of this, we are also going to have a generation of school leavers with no jobs too, because people are being forced to stay in their jobs until they retire later.

Its a very depressing economy that we are living in.

I dont know what the answer is, but its safe to say that nobody can really rely on a pension for their future any more.

I imagine plenty of people would think it unreasonable to ask their parents (if in their 60s) to childmind for their children for a full day every day in school holidays. So multiplying those 13 weeks by 3 seems nuts

She might be in the minority here, but my mum is 65, still teaching and can do everything you mentioned cricketballs.
She could stop a fight at 50ft with just a look!
You're not necessarily a dithering imbecile just because you reach a certain age!!

I dont know what the answer is, but its safe to say that nobody can really rely on a pension for their future any more.
This, Squeaky, is exactly it!
When I leave this job (3 years max) I will take what I have accrued in my pension pot and place it into a private pension scheme. You would have to be mad to be my age and not be making provisions for old age cos you can bet your life if you don't you will live the end of your life in povery.

It's also the sheer weight of constant new initiatives that has an impact.
Imagine having to relearn how to do your job every year, with an entirely new catalogue of tricks and hoops and jargon and bells and whistles.
That if you don't remember on an hourly basis, you fail. That you are assessed upon termly. It's a bit like having to learn a new language every year, whilst having to maintain all the ones you have already had to learn.
The mental stress causes me more worry and insomnia than the physical aspects of the job.

I think your mum is in the minority wither hills, and well done to her! X
My dad retired at 55 after a life totally devoted to teaching. Within 6 months of retiring he looked 10 years younger.

I know how hard I found teaching when I was pregnant, I dread to think how bad it would be teaching when old. The people I know who are not that far over 60 don't lead me to think it'll be easy, they all seem to have various health problems: arthritis, strokes, heart attacks. Teachers who are often off sick aren't good for the education of the children who have to suffer endless cover teachers.

herbitea, can I assume that your daughter's school is in a relatively decent area? I went to a private secondary school where the teacher swere treatred with (for the most part) respect. Some of my teachers were well into their 70's with a few of them remembering teaching my mum.
We were very lucky to have teachers with such amazing expertise and subject knowledge. But could they have restrained a violent child? Broken up a fight? Like Hell.

There is a huge difference between allowing people to continue to teach into old age if they want to, and forcing them to do it.

No one particularly wants to work until they are kicking the arse off 70 but I don't see why teachers should be made into a special case. For instance, bricklayers and chambermaids will have to work until they are 68 and their jobs are incredibly physically demanding.

cricketballs

Have you been 60 or 65 yet? No, I tought not. How do you know what they can cope with then?

Of course they can. I didn't give up work until I was 64 and wish I hadn't. I loved it. And think back to the 20s and 30s. I have photographs of my MiL in a classroom as a pupil and there were 49 others in her class. Oh, and just after the War when I was in primary school my name was 53rd in the class register. At least those who are over 60 can spell and teach grammar to their classes.

Some teachers are fine, physically, mentally and emotionally to carry on teaching well after they're 60 - the problem is for those that aren't and are going to be forced to continue teaching because they have to, not because they still want to be there.

A teacher that doesn't want to be there is not an effective teacher.

But will I remember my WALTS, my WILFS and my AFs? My APPs and my VCOP and SEAL, SC and CPOW and the three thousand other acronyms and planning, teaching and learning demands?
I could happily teach the way that I did thirty years ago, but it was so much less fussy and complicated. Rather like all those posters reminiscing about Mrs X who taught 35 children and could keep order with a single glance.
FFS, that could be me you are remembering!

Crackfox, sure a chambermaid's job is physically demanding, but is it as important to get right?

It is important to the chambermaid so she doesn't lose her job.

Are middle class professions only important? Or should the little people just suck it up?

Crackfox, teaching isn't important because it's middle class, it's important because it's educating the next generation, getting them the qualifications they need to become useful adults to society, have opportunities open to them, fulfill their potential and to be decent, well-rounded individuals.

Cleaning a hotel bathroom doesn't really compare.

What about 65 year-old scaffolders; roofers; farmers; night-shift production line workers; etc?

They exist right now.

Some people seem to have elevated teaching into being the most physically demanding job on the planet and one which can't possibly be done by someone over 60 because they might have to work into the fucking night to mark work or write a report.

FFS.