to not worry about teachers aged 60+ in the classroom

[NotaTeacherBasher]

No teacher bashing, please.

A recurrent theme in the discussions about the changes to teachers' pensions is that teachers will not be able to retire at 55 any more. They will need to work until they are 65+ if they want their full pension.

Just like everyone else.

So what's the problem with that provided they are fit to work? Obviously some won't be able to and will, presumably, be able to retire on ill health grounds if they're not.

SardineQueen, I don't think that anyone has said that everyone over 55, or even over 60 or 65 is knackered and past it.

But the older you get, the likelihood of being knackered and past it certainly goes up.

I'm in my fifties, I take it you are not SQ.

Being older isn't like being heavily pregnant

Some of you have really grim ideas about what it's like to get older. Many old people are fit, vigorous and healthy. They are around here anyway

I think older teachers have an awful lot to offer.
Working with children is pretty hardgoing though but that counts for lots of us.

I got a taste when I was pg with DC5 and had to get down on the floor and carry huge bags of toys around, get up dodgy staircases and dodge spitting and headbutting 2 year olds.

Its going to affect us all. That doesnt make it ok for teachers though. It makes it a bit crap for everyone.

Why are teachers getting such a hard time lately? Because at last they are taking a stand and not bowing to the pressure of a government trying to guilt them in to being shafted?

How dare they

No but I do have some older people in my life, believe it or not.

Like I say my grand-dad worked into his 70s, my dad well into his 60s. My dad still cycles miles and miles every week and is very fit and healthy. My friends parents are all into hill walking, climbing, and are fit and lean as whippets.

Honestly where do you live where everyone is clapped out at such a young age? It's really odd.

Of course some older people I know have various issues but then so do lots of younger people I know.

noblegiraffe you said it

"Concordia, I'm not saying that there aren't other jobs that are also important and that you want to get right and have the best staff in to do. You don't want operations to be carried out by people who are knackered and past it either."

That really shocked me and led me to post that many older doctors work and are very good at their jobs. Especially in general practice (as they are self employed so can do what they like and many choose to carry on / do locum work).

Haha cross post with Sardine

I dont think being pg is the same as being old but it does slow you down a fair bit and so does old age.

I am only 44 and fitter than a lot of 25 year olds but not as fit as I was when I was 25.

Some people age long before their time. My DM settled into her dotage at an alarmingly young age. Others are fit and full of vim for many years.

Teachers shouldnt have to be young to cope at school. That shows something is wrong with the school really. Teachers shouldnt have to be restraining NT children.

Our society is far too obsessed with youth.

Experience is incredibly valuable.

Maypole1 - most jobs don't need you to want to be there, teaching does...

If you have an off day, it affects your teaching, how well you do it, how well the children learn. Teachers are of course human and the odd off day matters not overall.

Being taught day in and day out by someone who's gad enough but can't retire yet would have a massive effect.

Teaching isn't something you can just turn up to - it's massively demanding, not so much physically, but emotionally and mentally and after decades of doing it some teachers reach the point where they've just had enough.

It's not the only job that's like that at all, lots of vocational jobs are the same. They should get early retirement too.

It's not agism either, you get plenty of older teachers who can still teach well - it's about acknowledging that it takes a toll on you and not forcing teachers who have had enough to continue.

I am not clapped out. I am just not capable of working as I did when I was in my mid twenties, particularly in an environment where I am expected to be on top form constantly while putting in long hours. Part of that is also that I now have a child and a house to run. In my twenties I could work mad hours and have no one other than myself to worry or think about. I suppose many of us now have more responsibility as we get older at work, so there are additional things to think about.

Perhaps the younger teachers are skipping out of work as they know they may have some marking to do but that is it. I meanwhile have marking to do, something to do with my management role, tea to cook, a dd who will quite rightly demand my time , a partner who would like me to at least acknowledge his presence etc.

Maybe I will cope in my 60s as I will have no children at home.

I'll come back and let you all know in a decade how I feel. If MN and the internet are still going.

A lot of the points on this thread seem to be more to do with the demands of combining work with family and home commitments, as anything else.

SardineQueen if you force people to work till they are 68, then you will have people working who are knackered and past it. I didn't say that they all are knackered and past it. The people who have chosen to work past 60 now aren't knackered and past it because if they were knackered and past it they would have retired.

Saying that ' worked well into their 60s and was a brilliant teacher' is ignoring the choice they had to do that, and the many, many people who chose not to. It is not only a useless anecdote, but it is a biased sample.

I agree sardine. Something in society has gone very wrong.

We realised a few years ago that we could not combine two careers with family life so dp cut back.

It is a job that requires full engagement at a very high level for all the hours you are in contact with children, a relentless effort to keep up with the ever-changing and shifting dynamics of political and educational changes, a need to be constantly positive and professional and approachable with parents and carers, you have to do a lot of the work out of directed time because there isn't enough time.
What you can achieve when young and possibly part time becomes increasingly challenging for some, with age and more family commitments including elderly parents and dependent children of whatever age.
That's not an excuse SQ, just an attempt at an explanation.

tabulahrasa what like in greece lol

well have everyone retired at 20 if we followed their model

"Teaching isn't something you can just turn up to - it's massively demanding, not so much physically, but emotionally and mentally and after decades of doing it some teachers reach the point where they've just had enough."

sorry but my oh mates just rocks up he doesn't like children very much hence never trusting him to babysit and he basically just wings it.
so not sure if thats true at all

i rather some 70 year old than him whos 30 and writes must try harder in every ones books so he can get down the pub he brought a pack of red stamps with pharses on them off ebay god help the little children

the majorty of scandles that have happend eg teachers running off with students and facebook scandle have not been the older teachers sadley its been the younger ones trying to be trendy

Statistics show that the teachers most likely to be embroiled in a scandal are those in the first few years of their career or those who have been teaching for decades.

I have stamps and stickers with phrases, that does not mean I am lazy or don't give a shit. That reflects the fact that I mark hundreds of books a week.

No

teachers, nurses, police officers, fire brigade, carers...massively stressful, really important jobs - but they aren't valued. (and yes I'll have missed loads of jobs out)

They're jobs that most people would struggle to cope with at all, nevermind for decades and not particularly well paid considering - so what's wrong with acknowledging that they're blooming hard jobs to do and that people might need to retire earlier from them than other jobs?

Maybe we are striking about the wrong issue. Perhaps I could work until 67 if I had classes of 20 rather than 30. That would also benefit my pupils. Maybe I could work until 67 if I had more non contact time.

The no was at the Greece comment btw, lol.

I'm not saying at all that younger teachers are better, I'm saying that teachers that don't want to do it are bad teachers. If that happens because you've been doing it for years and have run out of enthusiasm/ age is affecting you, then that's massively different to someone in their thirties who can easily enough change career.

Surgeon at 68, my age senior NICU nurse I don't think I could cannulate a 500gm baby like I could 10 yrs ago eye sight not quite sharp sorry did not to be offensive to anyone old! But am an adoptive parent to a 13 & 6yr old with very complex needs. My post was intended to be tongue in cheek humour.

Are you not working as part of a team, 2old? If so, you give the eyesight jobs to the younger people and your contribution will be based on wisdom and experience. The younger person can be your eyes and hands as you guide and encourage them.

No when you work in a team you all have to be up to speed and how can you guide if you can't deal with the situation yourself when you are dealing with life/death. Speed is a priority to save a baby's life.

Then that's not a team, just a group of equally qualified/talented individuals. No synergy there.