to not worry about teachers aged 60+ in the classroom

[NotaTeacherBasher]

No teacher bashing, please.

A recurrent theme in the discussions about the changes to teachers' pensions is that teachers will not be able to retire at 55 any more. They will need to work until they are 65+ if they want their full pension.

Just like everyone else.

So what's the problem with that provided they are fit to work? Obviously some won't be able to and will, presumably, be able to retire on ill health grounds if they're not.

I'm more depressed at the thought of not being able to teach effectively in 27 years' time - I love my job & don't look forward to retiring at all.

But I doubt I'll be as effective at 68. I'll be physically less fit & that'll make a huge difference. Also, I'll be blocking some keen young NQT coming in, assuming anyone still fancies it as a job by then...

What we need is more phased retirement - we've got a couple of retired teachers in core subjects doing fantastic one-to-one/small group work to boost under-performing students atm. Their experience & subject knowledge are invaluable & they aren't needing to manage groups of 30+.

Both looking to be cut for next school year, though. It's a mess.

So...you turn 60 and become what? Incapaitated? A crap teacher suddenly? A doddery old fool??? How insulting to the many teachers who have carried out their duties at 60 and beyond. Pensions were created for that small space between stopping working and dying. Now that small space spans 25-30 years. Be thankful! I'm 42 and intend to be a powerhouse of knowledge and learning at 60 and then some. I'm doing a second degree, which, because I have small kids, will take until I'm nearly 50, then will need to do my PG studies, so...
bring.it.on.
And if you're going to whine about pay and conditions, you know where the door is. This is all just leftist spin to attempt to bring down a government they didn't want.Sour grapes - and yes, we live on ONE teacher's wage at the moment and so don't even try to assume we're independantly wealthy and doing this job for kicks.

(Sorry - did I not make it clear - myself and DH are teachers. He works, I raise children at the moment and we are doing ok for the 4 of us on one ordinary teachers salary.)

'What an unprofessional attitude!#

Do you think it won't happen? Teaching involves an enormous number of extra duties which cannot really be legislated for at the moment,they'd really have to rewrite the job description completely,
If we all just did the job as it is listed, like a chambermaid, lawyer or a brickie, then it would be easier but make schools a lot less pleasant as an environment to learn in.
Every extra would have to be negotiated and agreed or not carried out.
Is it part of my profession to look for lost coats, or listen to chatter not directly related to the learning objective for the lesson? A lawyer would charge for extra time spent.

How long since you worked in the classroom, Thruaglassdarkly?
How long will your baby break be?
I've got 30 years full time on the clock, so all the changes don't affect me directly. But I am worried about the impact on the profession of those teaching for 40 years. Without time out.

Back to planning the details of the Christmas production now...
And Christmas-themed activities for the last week of term that still have educational value and are fun and don't need me to pay too much for extra bits.
When is it dawn?

There's no way I'm leaving midwifery for a lesser paid, boring job unless I'm kicked out.

Forgive me if i have this wrong but if you're incabable of doing the job are still going to stay?

Bit worrying that one.

Yes I'm going to stay. Rather that than leave at 60 with no pension and go to tesco for less money. I'm sure if I'm totally incapable I'll be made to leave but I doubt I'll be that bad. I just won't be very good. My thought processes will have slowed down so I hope I can think quickly enough to anaylse ctgs, women will have to stay on the bed to give birth as I won't be able to kneel, get on the floor, etc.

I'm not going to argue for teachers being a 'special case' but there is a whole section on this website about education where parents are expressing very real and genuine concerns about decisions being made about their children by their children's teachers because their children's education is incredibly important to them.

AIBU is full of "AIBU to complain to the HeadTeacher?" "AIBU to be furious with my child's teacher about this?" "AIBU to expect more of my child's school?"

There are more complaints about teachers/school/education on here than any other profession (even more than drs receptionists )

Because even the slightest distraction, error of judgement, wrong reading level, ill thought out decision, incurs the wrath of the parent - and rightly so because this impacts on the health, safety and education of the most important thing to them, their child.

People on this thread are responding to the suggestion, understandably, as other professionals, other employees, other workers who are comparing their own working life with that of teachers.

But applied to your own child's teacher you would want them to be working at their best. If you go to a cafe but they've taken on an older employee and they don't make the sandwiches as well as the other one did, or the service is slower, or they don't give the correct change, that is far easier to correct than realising your child has been in a class with a jaded, older teacher and has made no significant progress in maths because she just wasn't really on top of things anymore. (Happened to my son).

My mum is 62 and isn't a teacher, but it is apparent that she is not as "on the ball" as she was years ago. she isn't as quick in her mental reactions, she isn't as physically capable. She acknowledges that her performance at work isn't quite what it used to be, but it just means the same stuff gets done, just a bit more slowly and she doesn't put herself out to do the extras anymore. And that's the problem. In her job, it's not the end of the world.

I think there's a place for experienced older teachers to work as improvment advisors for schools etc, rather than in the classroom.

We have quite a few teachers aged over 60 in my school, and they don't seem old to me. They have definitely got all their marbles.

beatenbyayellowteacup

lovely idea except almost all advisory posts have been cut

Teacup, the minute you're out of the classroom you are less relevant. Think OFSTED or most HTs.

I'm not sure that they would want to carry on that long but there are many teachers of 60+ who are far fitter and a lot more active than ones half their age!

The people banging on about how they know some brilliant teachers over 60 are missing the point that they don't know the many, many more who retired and how they would be getting on. The brilliant teachers past 60 had a choice to stay on and only the ones who really loved it will.

Like I said, I am surprised to find so many people apparently unconcerned about the quality of teaching their children will be receiving when there is so much slagging off of teachers who so much as put a foot wrong. You can't lobby for forcing old and knackered teachers to carry on teaching and expect the best quality teaching for your kids.

Yes, that's true

I still think it's a good idea though!

santac
I agree with you. If we all continue working into our 60s, that is going to mean fewer jobs for newly qualified teachers. As more experienced teachers tend to be at the top of the pay scale, it will also cause school budgets to be put under strain.

I really don't think that it is going to be so much of a problem. I have left teaching for a change before 60.

I went to a meeting about retirement and pensions and the person giving the talk pointed out that people entering teaching after university and staying until retirement is a thing of the past. The career for life has gone.

Teachers have degrees and they have options. A lot don't start until in their 40s and so are still enthusiastic and fresh, others come in from jobs in the city where they earned a lot, but it wasn't rewarding etc.

Lots start young, get fed up or tired or want a change. I know lots in their late 20s who have got out.

There will be some stuck there when they don't want to be, but it doesn't make much difference if you are 40 and fed up or 50 or 60 and fed up.

I could still run around the playing field with them in PE and there are some overweight, unfit young teachers who couldn't manage it.

I think the argument is more would you want a 68 year old teaching your child compared to would you want a 68 year old cleaning your hotel room.

Whoops. Missed 2 pages of argument! I'm going to practise retiring early by leaving this thread now. Seriously, you want me teaching you 5 year olds at 68!?

I too am concerned by the number of posters on here who can cite the example of the one fun, dynamic, on the ball 60+ year old teacher they know and extrapolate this to blanket all 60+ teachers.

Foe the record, as a radiographer, I xray dozens of people between the ages of 60 and 65 who clearly demonstrate the ravishes of time on their faculties. I am not talking about the chronically ill, I refer to the 'injured toe whilst gardening' who otherwise live normal, every day lives. Some work, many have retired.

I am in no way disrespecting them when I suggest many would be unable to hold down a mentally and physically demanding job like mine. Many of them would be the first to admit it. And it's not that they're 'not clever enough' it's just that they, like most older people, take longer to process and understand information. My job requires instant response and appropriate reaction to quickly developing situations (otherwise, people might die, for example...).

I am 48, and I smiled at the 42 year old teacher who posted earlier telling us how dynamic she will remain well into her 60s. Wish I had her crystal ball. I can safely say that I have noticed in this past decade how much less dynamic I feel. I fear trying to get my head around ever more complex real-time MRI sequences and protocols I will need to assimilate as I 'slow down'. The 'refuge' for the older radiographer might once have been the 3 day a week cottage hospital doing chest xrays. That sinecure no longer exists; the 'alternative' is going back to 'the shop floor' and doing General radiography. See my earlier posts about the physical man-handling of increasingly elderly and often obese patients coupled with the 16 hour shifts spanning nights. No thanks.

Finally, as for 'retraining' and 3 career changes during a working life- actually I remain unconvinced. If one means being made redundant at a professional job and then shelf stacking in Asda to make ends meet- yes, that happens, but it hardly counts as a 'career change' does? That term implies a considered, structured change of direction backed up with retraining (who has the ££ and time for that?). Not many people actually do that, do they?

There are lots of 60+ teachers at my DD's school and they are experienced, dedicated and patient. They have a lot more to give the children than the younger teachers, IMO, although I have no problem at all with younger teachers as we need teachers at all stages of life and professional development.

I, too, am amazed by the number of poster here saying that at their child's school there are lots of teacher who are 60+. There are none at my school and neither are there any at my children's school. There are a number of teachers in their late 50s who are exhausted, in ill-health and are counting down the days to retirement. Are these lots of teachers part-time, I wonder?

I think that when teachers (and nurses) are forced to work f/t until they are 70 (which is very different to choosing to teach part time at 60 because you enjoy it), there will be many cases of capabililty procedures and disciplinary proceedings as they will be unable to do their jobs properly.

I agree totally with exotic fruits.

Teachers enter and leave the profession at all ages, and there are very few jobs nowadays that are for life.

It is better to have a tried and tested older teacher whom you know enjoys the job, than someone who comes in and gets fed up after a year.

One of the benefits of teaching is that there is scope for all ages and experiences and every school needs to have a broad range of staff - young/old, solo teaching career/someone out of industry, male/female etc etc. The best way to achieve this balance is to let it happen organically rather than impose some kind of social engineering. Older people do not have to retire before they are ready to let young people in. It is their right to work as long as they want to. They have a lot to offer. It may not be the same as what a younger person has to offer, but that's not what's needed.

We don't have any at 60+ and this is at a school with few behaviour challenges although the workload is huge. We have quite a few in their mid fifties. Most are doing a good job and are certain capable but definitely looking forward to retirement.

I think people are right that many teachers now do not consider it to be there forever career. I think I have five to ten years left in me. I can't imagine being able to work this many hours and be under the constant pressure to perform forever. I may go Pratt time although to be honest all of this has made me think about just doing something else.

tbh I don't think I can be bothered marking constantly until I'm 68.