to be upset at racism accusation due to dd1's comment in town.

[PrincessScrumpy]

dd1 is 3 and said loudly "look mummy that lady has a chocolate face." The woman heard and said " nice to see you training her to be racist already!" I was really shocked. dd didn't mean offence it was an observation that her skin colour was the same as chocolate. She's only met a few people from other races due to us living in the West Country but I've always explained skin colour in the same way as hair and eye colour being different.

She did say it once before about Tiger Woods on TV but I decided to ignore it and not make an issue. dd now is asking what racist is and I don't think a 3yo needs to know - they don't see colour as a issue or feel superior etc. Left me shaken and actally quite cross. I really think the lady was being oversensitive.

Ok i have a confession, my son made a monkey noise at a lady witn a dark skin tone in a shop when he was 18 months old. i was mortified, apologized and ran out! He made the same noise at a monkey picture in a story book, would some of you say i taught him to be racist?

This calls to mind when my 12m was sitting next to the neighbor boys last summer and was trying to touch their faces and staring intently at their skin. I was rather embarrassed and said, 'it's not nice to stare, but they do look different to you don't they?' She was very intense in her look and it was making the boys uncomfortable too. In the end I distracted her from them by showing her some rocks (gotta love that age). Now she doesn't notice in the least bit.
Dd has 4 dolls 2 light 1 medium 1 dark. The one with the darkest skin is called Taco...and we think this is because the littlest boy down the street has a nick name Kapo...I feel a little odd/uncomfortable having a doll named Taco, in this case I know that it is pure innocence that the baby is so named and we've done nothing about Baby Taco.

I'd have to say I would not have commented probably to my dd abt Tiger Woods on TV unless she was having prolonged exposure and saying it over and over as it's not necessarily something she'd say or think again especially 6m later.
In a similar way I never made comment when dd was saying Fahk when things didn't go her way when she was playing (if something broke or fell down). I made it a non-issue by not saying a thing and it's passed. She no longer says it. If she did start swearing again, especially at someone, I'd say that it was inappropriate, not nice, and she should stop. But part of it is because I see now that she would understand more about right and wrong.

I think I'd be upset to be called racist too, especially when I was not intending to be or raise my children that way. The thing to remember is that people can take offence at even rather innocent comments. I think if someone said to me oh you rather have pig skin I'd be upset even if they were a child; my skin might be pig colored, and they might love pigs to death...but still...so what one needs to do is be aware of possible sensitivity and react to it in an appropriate way for the age of our kids.
The time has passed for the OP to say anything abt the initial incident to her child (unless the child asks specifically), but if it comes up again I'd say that the comment of chocolate skin certainly needs to be addressed with a comment like, 'I know their skin looks the color of chocolate, but it might hurt their feelings you saying that. They do have darker skin then you but that's because their mommy or daddy or nana or poppa or even someone older came from a place like Africa where they get lots of sun...)

I was once walking by the house of a woman, who lived up the road from my parents, and her young child (probably 3-4 years old). As I walked past I heard the woman say someting about someone keying her car and the little girl said 'Mummy did a black man do it?' the woman saw me and tried to shush the child but I went up to her and said that the child clearly learned that in the home so there was no need to shush her for my benefit. I'm mixed race but even if I was full white I'd still have said something because the kid must have learned that all crime is a black man's fault from home. Be careful what BS you teach your kid's at home because they have a funny way of showing what goes on behind closed doors.

BTW I'm not saying that you or your child is racist in anyway OP. This case is clearly different from my experience. Your DD is confused but you need to teach her so she doesn't do it again because I wouldn't like to be walking down the street and called chocolate or caramel face by anyone however little. It would piss me off especially if I was already having a shitty day.

If you can teach your kids not to use swear words, they can also learn not to use words that offend minorities, the disabled, gays etc. If my DD called anyone an offensive term I would be immediately explaining that she is not to use that word and why, not blaming the person who was offended for being offended. What if she called someone in a wheelchair a 'spaz' because she doesn't often see people in wheelchairs and that person called you out on it? Would you not retrain your child asap or would you blame the disabled person for being upset?

Okaaaay, Charitygirl

Black people should of course be able to accuse anyone they like of being racist if they want to. Whether or not they actually are racist is irrlevant.

I guess it just helps if the person they are accusing is white.

calma the key bit is this "i was mortified, apologized and ran out!"

Nowhere in anything the OP has written does she even hint at feeling that her DD has said something wrong, embarrassment, mortification, looking apologetic, anything like that. I suspect that the lack of reaction is the reason the woman told her off.

...And their child just called them 'chocolate face', slave. Don't forget that bit.

The woman in question didn't just randomly point to a white person and accuse them of being racist

Now in all seriousness,

when do you get to the point where you start explaining it? Do you leave it until primary school and the children are calling other children chocolate face and when their parents are spoken to about reinforcing the idea that it might not be an appropriate description be told 'Oh they're just being friendly, they like chocolate see'

Or do you wait because they're too young to be told, according to their parents, that 'fuck off darkie' might be a rather offensive thing to say to a teacher. (Yes that did really happen to me, Year 3 pupil whilst I did supply).

It all builds up gradually in my opinion if apathy is allowed.

A lack of any reaction, verbal or facial at the time to me is apathy. I don't think it's so much what the child said as the way it was dealt with at the time and the righteous indignation that the OP has when she was challenged on this. The woman did not tear 10 strips off of her DC, which would have been wrong, but did challenge the adult who should have been straight in there correcting their child through facial expression or response.

I think that the comparisons that people have made of children saying things they shoudn't have one key difference, they describe being mortified and upset. The OP does not do this. This could be an oversight on her part.

My dd used to point out black people (we're white) all the time when she was 4 or 5 - and we live in an area where about 60% of population are non-white!

Once she said (to the postman - really loudly) 'What's that black one doing?'. He turned round and gave me a lethal look while I smiled pathetically. It wasn't racist but I can see how he'd think it might be. She did it all the time.

We always talked about races and faces and skin etc and she grew out of it. Her best friend is black!!!!! (such a cliche hence the exclaimation marks!)

YY roundtable

Children are drawn to people just like them.

One of my children disliked black children as he thought they were dirty, hadn't really occurred to me that they noticed difference before that. He watched TV, Cbeebies, and so I just assumed he knew people comes in all shapes, sizes and colour, Why wouldn't I?

Oh i see what you mean, i assumed she was too shocked to react but the op doesn't mention feeling embarrassed etc in her post, just annoyed at the accusation, penny finally drops....

I got called a "fucking albino" once in a majority black area so actually I, as a white person can comment on what racism is and that was racism. My indian boss at work commented about the soles of my feet are being so pink....is he racist..no, because it wasn't his intention to be racist.

Surely racism is the intention to treat someone differently because of their race.

Hester, I see what you are saying and I agree to a certain extent. I don't believe children are so sweet and innocent that they don't notice differences, but as a parent of a young child (1-2 years) I noticed when they were looking at someone with black skin in the same way that I could tell that they were fasicinated the first time they saw someone with glasses. And that is what opens up conversation naturally, as they continue to be curious as they get older.

We are not silent about race, and I don't think my children are 'colour blind'. But I don't think I have to push race issues on to them any more that I have to push any other issue on them. They will notice someone using a wheelchair as quickly as they will notice someone that is a different colour to them, and I have taught acceptance of all differences equally.

I have always been quite conscious of not wanting to make race an issue in itself, because I think if you handle learning around race differently to they way you handle learning around any other minority group, then you are making it into a bigger issue than it should be. I wanted them to learn to see beyond the difference and look at people naturally, and I've worried that if I focus on teaching that we have to treat people with a different skin colour the same as us, then they would wonder why anyone would think that they didn't have to do that in the first place. Because as far as they know, you treat everyone with kindness and respect regardless.

I'm not sure that makes much sense, but I know what I'm trying to say!

Of course your DD was not being racist intentionally, and the woman may have overreacted slightly, but YABU to not correct her when she made the comment before. How is a 3yo supposed to learn what is right and what is wrong if you don't grow a backbone & tell her!?

to be honest reading the post again why doe,s the op think she dosent need to no what raciest means she does need to know and i cant believe a 3 year old in this day an age only knows tiger woods as the only black man i cant believe racism can still go ontoday.

This child is THREE years old! She described someone she saw using something she was familiar with making a link between the two.

Did the lady (and some people on here) really think that the OP had been saying to her child , 'now darling, we really dont like black people so if you see one, make sure that you call them chocolate face because that will really offend them'.

Having said that I do think that the OP should now have a chat about why we dont call people that.

'Children are draen to people just like them'

Total BS Posies. My DD is drawn to all children and all the kids we know are the same. She only has to hear a scream of laughter and she's crawling as fast as she can to them with the determination of the Terminator to play with them. She will play with any child who looks like they're having fun. I take her to rhyme time and she's rolling around with blond kids, black kids, ginger kids, Muslim kids, Chinese kids. Her favourite person on tv is the lady with one arm, her face lights up whenever she's on screen. If she did start showing some kind of dislike for a specific type then I would be questioning how that came about and be correcting her. She is drawn to anyone who smiles at her or who looks like they're having a good time, most kids are.

You don't have to be called a "fucking albino" to know what racism is, ohanotherone.

And, bizarrely, it would seem that you still don't understand it.

Racism can be borne of ignorance as well as hate. It doesn't not make it any less racist.

Calling somebody "chocolate face" is racist, even if a small child who has no idea of the semiotics of it does the calling. It still signifies the same thing. The comment is racist.

*doesn't not? Err... one or the other, sorry.

My comment was really responding to the poster below who said that as white people are in the majority they can never know what racism is. I don't think that is true...racism is more complex than that.

Children pointing out things about other people seems to me a thing that they all go through and dealing with it in an appropriate way is part of developing their social skills.

Small children say wildly inappropriate things all the time. Because they don't know any better. It's up to us to correct them.

A normal parental response to what the OP's child said is, as many people have said, to be mortified and say 'OMG I'm so sorry!' to the adult and then correct the child. Not to post on MN about how the mean, nasty woman had a go at me. The OP had a chance to correct her child when they said that about Tiger Woods. They chose not to.

I am seriously at the people who seem to be suggesting that there's nothing wrong with what the child said because comparing a person to chocolate is ok because chocolate is a nice thing!

It makes me wonder if we've really come as far as we think in terms of stamping out racism, when people are offended at being called racist but seem to think they can't be racist if what they're saying is 'a compliment'.

Why doesn't OP get dd dolls of different ethnicity? Then if she calls her dark skinned one 'chocolate face', OP can gently point point that she does not call her white dolls 'milk face' and that white is not the default standard in human colour.

If a 3 year old called someone a 'fag', yid', 'wog', 'spastic' etc would you say it's okay because they don't understand? No you wouldn't, you would be mortified, correct them then find out where the hell they learned it. The OP seems to think that because the kid doesn't understand, which she doesn't, then it's not offensive. It still is and as her guardian you are responsible for how she behaves so you should be embarrassed and correct her. If you don't teach her she's going to have a very hard time at school and beyond.

"I am seriously at the people who seem to be suggesting that there's nothing wrong with what the child said because comparing a person to chocolate is ok because chocolate is a nice thing!"

I know- what cunts!

(Vaginas are nice things, right?)