I know I am but help me change! Jealousy issue

[chewbaccy]

I have namechanged as embarrassed by my attitude! My much younger sis is a massive flirt, she is also stunning & by her own admission loves attention from men & says that she gets on better with men than with women. She has a habit of pointing out my faults, weight issues, grey hair etc & generaly stamping over my confidence. she gets on famously with my dh, he loves her company, finds her easy to talk to & she is always flattering him, telling him how good he looks, taking time to listen to him & monopolizing him at family events to look at his watch, learn ALL about his phone etc.
when he's not around she's her usual grumpy self but lights up when he walks into a room. She will criticize my musical tastes but when dh plays the same band/genre etc she says she loves it!! When I challenge her on this she denies she ever hated it!!
She shows little or no interest in our dcs but when dh is holding them she suddenly has a renewed interest and bends over to play with them and pretty much shows all of her ample boobs!
I know it sounds petty but we hosted a party where she she danced closely up to dh shaking her boobs in his face and not breaking eye contact. I was 8 months pregnant at the time and felt really weird about it..... Later that week she criticised somebody else for dancing in exactly the same way all over another man. I nearly reminded her that's how she danced to dh but I didn't want to make a scene as I know she'd downplay it and I also feel that she'd like a reaction from me.
Its getting to the point where I'm starting to dread any family get together as I don't know how to handle it..... Dh can't see a problem & I'm pretty sure he's flattered by the attention of a sexy young woman. we all do family things like swimming with all the kids, beach etc but I don't like going anymore because I can't relax because she always wears as little as possible! Honestly wherever we go she has every single man in the venue looking at her & cultivating!

I also think she knows what she's doing as she's very jealous in relationships which is why she prefers to stay single!

dh has 2 older sisters. They are very nice, reserved & appropriately behaved in polite society!

Sternface: ouch! You touched a nerve! 'they' say all the answers can be found within yourself... I don't want to hear him say she's attractive to him & at the same time I think if he says she's not then I know he's lying because she's gorgeous!

Why are you excusing your husband's behaviour? He is so so disrespectful to you and he ALLOWS her vile behaviour to continue by enabling it. He needs calling up on this and fast as quite frankly his behaviour is as disgusting as hers.

She is awful, what a complete nasty cow - she is toxic and doesn't give a toss about you. And your husband needs to show you some respect my if orange her pathetic flirting and he needs to show her that it is innapropriate. you should tell him this is not only what you expect him to do but it is what you deserve as you are his wife.

I'm so sorry you have such a vile sister And a husband who load up her attention - YOU are NOT at fault at all - they are.

Looks aren't everything though. I know it's a cliche but they really aren't. I know of many very attractive people outwardly whom I don't feel remotely attracted to because inwardly they're not very nice.

I heard a snippet of a prog about da vinci the other day in which he has apparently drawn a picture of a man with a thin tube from his dick which is connected to his brain. Again, another cliche but it can render men a bit blind sometimes.... NOT that I'm excusing his disloyalty, particularly if you try to broach these subjects and he shames and sneers at you. Meanwhile she's doing the salome dance around him and he's bedazzled - and you're supposed to put up with it, called a harpy if you raise objections.

You say you have a lot of experience and expertise (also that you like to look after people... yikes!); that you like to give what you didn't get. All ok on the surface, but how much of it are you doing to assuage your inner hurts? You also say words to the effect that you excuse people by saying they are 'naive' ergo you are the expert and should be able to handle stuff like this. I don't think it works like that tbh. It's a natural consequence of abuse but this theory that if you are kind and kinder to people they won't hurt you doesn't really work; nor that if you understand why they do it it doesn't hurt. It does hurt, whether you understand it or not (though admittedly, if you understand it it is less confusing up to a point). It's a bit beneficent really to excuse people's poor behaviour at the cost of your sanity and peace because you understand why they do it.

Sorry if that's blunt though

I'd also like to say (as if I havne't said enough) that shaming or humiliating a narcissist (recommended upthread) is disastrous. Even if your husband did knuckle down and start behaving appropriately - loyally - it would be a disastrous thing to shame her. Narcissists' ire is bottomless, plus they have fabulously fragile egos. There are other ways to draw boundaries without overtly humiliating or shaming, even when the behaviour that needs addressing is grossly inappropriate and vile. Boundaries need to be rigid, firm, airtight but not attacking. You have to slip about with a narcissist as to lock horns is a disaster.

Thus saith and all that

But whatever it is, you need to face up to it. If we hadn't formed an impression of your husband from your posts, I would say that your logic was flawed, in that your husband might objectively find your sister attractive, without being remotely attracted to her himself. If he is attracted to her and is playing along, then you need to know that. You will never beat this enemy with the silent sniper in your own corner, you know.

Have read your updates.

You do need to tackle your husband. But I think a more effective way of doing it might be to bypass all the heartfelt chat and feeling your way and just assume that he is playing along, that he is enjoying it at some level, and just give him a straight out piece of your mind.

'You're acting like a fool, and it's getting worse. You needn't jump to your own defence, I'm not claiming that you're about to have an affair with her or something - God, if I thought that, we wouldn't be having this conversation - but frankly, I am getting sick of you showing yourself up in public, and by extension showing up me and the kids. Look, SisX is a stupid, childish flirt - always has been. She's getting worse too, I suppose it's sour grapes at still being single - but I'm getting sick of the fact that her current way of taking this out on me is to act like a dog on heat around my husband. I'm MORE sick, however, of the fact that my adult husband's response to this is to practically hump her leg back.
Next time you get the come-on treatment from her, I would be really, really pleased if you actually had the maturity to respond like a married father. It would be lovely to not have to field sympathetic glances from our relatives as they look at YOU, yes YOU - not her.
Our family expects her to act like a twat - yes, they do. You know that. I don't expect to have to be happy with them eventually pegging you as the same kind of sad, immature little loser.'

And to Sis?

Pick your moment. Rehearse. And at some point, when she's just done something else, just made a snide remark or inappropriate move, you get her alone, and smile, and say -

'Do you know, you are really beginning to strike me as an absolutely vile little bitch. There's only one thing I want to say. I don't know what reaction you want from me when you act like a dog on heat around my childrens' father, your own brother-in-law. All I can tell you is the reaction you will eventually get, and that'll be when I finally decide that you really aren't a good person to have around my children and my family. Is that the outcome you want? Think on it, and get a bit of fucking respect for your sister or get out of my face. Permanently.'

Your dh is also to blame. My dh would not dream of behaving in such a manner.It is easy to blame your dsis(who sounds vile btw), but your dh's response is inexcusable. He may or may not be attracted to your sister, but by playing along with her, he is probably giving her the impression that he is attracted to her.

Shouty,brilliant post. You have taken the words right out of my mouth.

forehead ta :) - do you know I was just reading it back and thinking 'Hey, there I go off the arsey deep end again' ... but actually, OP, she really does sound vile. Truly fucking horrible, all dressed up as nothing too bad. Don't lose sight of that just because she's your sister.

I do take back the b-word though, that ain't nice - call her a collapsed flan or a beetroot-faced hagazoid instead, praps??

Shouty - that is brilliant - perfect

Please op, say what shouty says!

Blimey, shoutyHamster, I wish I'd said that! Excellent advice - Op please take it!

Please toughen your boundaries up OP. If you don't confront her then practice your responses to her comments and think of saying them with a laughing or disparaging or casual face, however you feel inside.

So if you go on a shopping trip, at the first disparaging remark she makes say passingly "blimey that's a bit harsh" or "god are you trying to hurt my feelings or do you have PMT?" and at the next disparaging remark say flippantly "oh, the 2nd hurtful comment, are you in a mood?" and carry on in that vein keeping count. That should let her know you're on to her undermining you and stop it but without you making a scene or having to get upset.

The idea above about jokingly comparing her to a leg-humping dog and making her the butt of the joke when she starts waving her boobs around should shame her too and make you look like less of a pushover.

I'd be really worried by her comment about your husband's sexual experience and I don't say that to hurt your feelings or worry you as that was what she wanted to do. That needs to met with a firm "that's inappropriate, what a weird thing to say" at the very least (personally I prefer Shouty's approach but I don't think you'll take it for understandable reasons).

And I know it's a bit sly but you could use your other sister in this if you think she repeats things back to the trollop sister. Maybe confide in nice sister that you're worried that trollop sister is depressed or lacking confidence because she keeps making a fool of herself and saying really odd things. Either way that would flag up her behaviour with your nice sister under the guise of you being concerned.

Please speak to your husband and tell him about your mum and gran and how your sister is not the same around you as around him and that she is bullying you and ask him for his help and support in rebutting her bad behaviour.

wow! I've been out all day & just skim read these latest post. I need to sit down quietly to read and absorb but there is plenty to think about. My and my family's boundaries are so skewed it's been hard to try and erect mine in adulthood.

What you just said about boundaries begin skewed. Even if you were being unreasonable or over-reacting - which you are not, btw - in a family which functioned well you would be able to say something to your sister (please don't do this, it makes me feel xxx, or whatever) and the expected answer would be along the lines of (sorry, I didn't realise/okay, if you feel like that I won't do it) - she might roll her eyes or whatever, but she would respect you enough to change her behaviour towards your husband. And in many families there would be enough awareness on the part of other family members not to let her get away with this kind of behaviour for any length of time without being pulled up on it.

If I were you I would try (as i think you said you would anyway) to look at the level of communication/relationship between you and your dh, as this is key. Small children and working hard put great strains on a marriage.

I am not trying to be unkind, but need to just say: My sister's best friend lost her husband this way. He slept with his wife's (much younger, very spoilt, very needy) sister. Be careful.

I have a female relative that behaves like this, but the one difference between this situation and mine is that my husband is absolutely on my side, he sees her flirting, sexy dressing, batting of eyelashes and the whole performance directed at him as rather sad and not the actions of someone who is happy with themselves. This reassures me, and I know that in a million trillion years, he would not be interested in her. I don't get that from your description of your husband, he dismisses when she calls you names/says nasty things about your appearance, gets her drinks when she asks him, plays games with him whilst you are busy with other childcare, and stands like a lemon while she slow-dances with him.

She is absolutely at fault, but you are the team. She shouldn't be able to touch you and you should be able to stand back together and see her as the attention seeking young woman that she is.

If you can't be honest about this, or have a laugh about it together, I would start working on being closer to your husband and reconnecting there, whilst avoiding her if you can for a while. Once you feel closer and more bonded, her antics will start to seem amusing rather than threatening. I also think you and your husband owe it to your sister not to continue this behaviour as it is making her worse, not better.

If you aren't sure how to tackle your relationship, then how about talking with an old friend or seeing a counsellor for a few sessions on your own. I think this may run deeper than just your sister, who, however annoying and flirtatious, shouldn't be able to rock your sense of certainty like this, especially now you have a husband and children.

mmmnotsure: I take your warning seriously which is very sad for me. She was originally planned to babysit for dc1 while I was in labour with dc2 but I didn't like the thought of her 'congratulating' dh at home whilst I was in hospital! Think I've read too many 'take a break' stories about high emotions turning into 'encounters'and I made other arrangements.
So sad about your sister's friend, strange what people do to make themselves feel better.
On a couple of occasions I have made cAtty remarks to her in retaliation but it doesn't sit well with me and I over compensate in other ways due to guilt!

hardgoing: you're so Right. Our relationship has of course been buffeted by the arrival of tiny tots. Coupled with lack of sleep & him working away there is very little chance to reconnect as a couple so I feel that although there is love between us we are more like puppets at the moment moving between varying states of consciousness if that makes sense. I have tried to talk to friends but they are not as forthright as the MN women. This thread has gone in a completely different direction from where I was expecting & has opened a real can o'worms for me.

shouty: beetroot faced hagazoid!?! Love it.
Your suggestions are fab & I think I will practice them just in case I feel explosive I will have it all there ready for me/them.
I appreciate the time & effort you have put into your ideas and its nice to have a chuckle at the same time..

I'm glad you didn't mind me saying that. I hesitated, not wanting to 'rock' you. But it did happen (and they had two young dcs at the time).

You sound like a good person who doesn't deserve all this. I don't think you deserve to feel guilty at all. I think you should see your reactions as the right ones, and the reactions of the rest of the people involved as skewed. If your family cannot help very much, are there friends who can support you and perhaps give an outside, preferably very shocked, and loud view of it all (at a time that your dh could hear)?

mmmnotsure: I do have a friend who can do loud & disapproving if required! She's the one who chastised sis for teasing her teenage son at our party. I will put wheels in motion. Sad thing is I know if she hadn't left before the salome dance my friend would hav pulled sis up on it Although I'm now thinking dh could hav been a bit less 'danced at' & made steps to extricate himself.

Clams: I'm going to try & avoid to start with & work on getting my strength back,, plus boundaries & try to address things as they happen... A lot of the time I'm blindsided: 'did she just say/mean/do that?!' but talking to all of you wonderful people online & witnessing her recent desperado behavior on a night out without dh I now know for sure what she's playing at. .

chewy, it was a joke only, but not at making judge her, I meant at keeping him away from her. Although I realize that isn't really the problem, her behavior is. If people let her get away with it, do not discourage it, then why wouldn't she continue to do this. She obviously has the hots for your dh, and doesn't consider you in the equation.

*him judge her.

Im not sure if I agree that she has the hots for him, but she definitely wants him to fancy her and to want her - especially above you - her sister, his wife. You do need to call your husband up on his totally disrespectful
Behaviour - she does it because he allows it.

I'm afraid I cannot abide women like your sister, don't be so sure that she is as attractive as you think - people who act in this way not only have vile actions, they look vile.

morning runningwilde!
No I'm not sure whether she fancies him or just wants him to fancy her. She does have a history of much older men so it's not beyond the realms of possibility! She could be trying to put me down because she is jealous I'm with him or just because she's jealous I'm settled & happy (although this has unsettled me)
There is a local families event today & its more than likely she'll be there. I should go because the dcs would like it but at the same time don't really feel like seeing her. All the discussion on here & my own feelings / observations make me want to avoid her for the timebeing until I can 'regroup'.

iscream: without saying too much there is some truth in your 'jokey' suggestion & dh is aware of this but I think he's probably forgotten. Dh is pretty forgetful which is another silly reason I haven't properly tackled him on it, I feel I'd be having to remind him of a lot of the things that have happened & sound a bit nitpicky although I doubt he's forgotten the more significant incidents.