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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to tell DD to stay put and not do what her teacher has just told her?

241 replies

quackermoomoo · 16/11/2011 09:48

DD1 is in 6 form - they don't have a uniform, their rules just say that nothing lowcut or very short, beach attire etc

I'm spanish - my great GP all fought on Republican side in civil war, GP involved against Franco as were parents.

My Grandfather bought my DD a t-shirt for her birthday a few days ago. She really likes it (okay so it is winter so she is wearing a long sleeved black top under it) and went to school wearing it. It has a montif of Dolores Ibarruri on the side. (DD has just got very into our family history)

She has just phoned to say she has been told to go home. She is obviously shocked. The school send people home to get changed if clothes dont match the code. Head of 6 form told her that political symbols are againt school rules - I just checked no where in cotract she signed does it say that.

I have seen students walking to school past our house wearing tops with Che Guevara on and one person in DS1 class wore a Tory party top when the elction was on (he is at uni) and they were allowed to wear it.

She doesn't want to go home and change and I don't think she should have to.

I told her to stay put and if head says anything tell him to phone me. We shall wait and see

AIBU to not back up school?

OP posts:
SoupDragon · 18/11/2011 12:37

I've just skimmed the thread for the outcome and, everything else aside, I can not believe you think is a good idea for your daughter to talk to the headmaster like that.

Hullygully · 18/11/2011 12:42

I'd be proud of my dd.

Blind obedience leads to nasty places.

In order for evil to triumph etc

malinois · 18/11/2011 12:44

Soup Do you not think that authority figures should ever be challenged? Or should arbitrary and illogical 'rules' be adhered to slavishly, even when they directly counter supposedly universal rights such as freedom of expression?

Schools are an instrument of the state, and the state should not (but sadly does) repress freedom.

Jins · 18/11/2011 12:44

bruffin

Yes you can follow the rules and believe something else and fight for change but upthread you said:

No conformity is not accepting the rule for you in society, it is about accepting the rules of society and changing them from within.

Conformity is not about change. It is about conforming

SoupDragon · 18/11/2011 12:49

"Soup Do you not think that authority figures should ever be challenged? "

That's not what I said is it?

I don't think that a pupil should speak like that to the head. IMO, she should have gone home and let her mother deal with it.

Hullygully · 18/11/2011 12:51

She's in the sixth form. She can vote any minute but not defend herself to the head teacher?

Really?

SoupDragon · 18/11/2011 13:00

Yes, really.

My personal opinion is that where there is an issue with a teacher, at school, it is the parent's job to deal with it. In the workplace, at university etc yes, leave it to the person concerned to sort it out.

If you don't agree, I don't much care.

Hullygully · 18/11/2011 13:01

Well that's told me.

bruffin · 18/11/2011 13:03

Jin
I said conforming to society. In this society and the society my children have in their school they can vote for change. They are still conforming to societies principals.

"Schools are an instrument of the state, and the state should not (but sadly does) repress freedom."

Can you not see the irony of wearing a symbol of communism (red star)on a tshirt to oppose repression of freedom.

I suspect all the OP dd has succeeded in doing is getting the HM to claryfy the rules on 6th form dress code. 6th form is not compulsory and she doesn't have to be at the school. If she doesn't like the rules she can leave.

malinois · 18/11/2011 13:13

soup

"My personal opinion is that where there is an issue with a teacher, at school, it is the parent's job to deal with it. In the workplace, at university etc yes, leave it to the person concerned to sort it out."

We don't have school sixth forms in my county - it is all sixth form colleges where students are expected to behave like adults. I would certainly expect a student to robustly protest a rule which they believe to be either unjust or unwarranted.

Perhaps it is simply that school sixth forms infantilise students and they are expected to conform to ridiculous and outmoded dress codes and not challenge their tutors?

Jins · 18/11/2011 13:14

I can see all sorts of irony in all sorts of things but I believe that sixth form should be relatively safe place to explore and challenge the norm so that limits of acceptable behaviour can be fully understood by what is effectively an emerging adult.

MildlyNarkyPuffin · 18/11/2011 13:14

If she doesn't like the rules she can leave

It's not in the rules. And the DD wasn't wearing a red starthat day. She was wearing a t-shirt with 'a montif of Dolores Ibarruri on the side.' The head decided that this was worth sending her home over when other students have worn political clothing and weren't sent home.

Wearing the other tops might be childish and pushing it. Wearing the top that started the problem wasn't in any way designed to agitate or provoke a reaction - it didn't break any rules and was an expression of family pride. The head didn't like the politics expressed.

I'd be very proud of my DD.

Towndon · 18/11/2011 13:19

Young people should learn to not conform with their minds and intellect. This is perfectly possible with a school uniform or dress code.

It's so lazy to choose clothing non-conformity instead of mental non-conformity (which may even involve clothing conformity as a stand against the usual "I'm so original" dressers).

Clothing "non-conformity" usually ends up as simply following one of the accepted fashion groups, such as all the "original" tie-die clothing wearers who actually form a very identifiable group.

Towndon · 18/11/2011 13:19

I'd rather meet someone with boring clothes and an interesting mind, than vice versa.

bruffin · 18/11/2011 13:35

Mildynarkypuffin - the tshirt linked had a redstar

Towndon - Spot on, exactly what I have been trying to say. Thankfully I have dcs (14 and 16) that are known for their ability to have mature and thoughtful debate, who are very good at seeing the bigger picture.

knockkneedandknackered · 18/11/2011 13:41

i woulden't take it to heart just let your dd where them for weekend.

fedupofnamechanging · 18/11/2011 13:51

malinois the trouble with 1984, is that is should have been a warning. Instead, successive governments have used it as a blueprint.

MildlyNarkyPuffin · 18/11/2011 14:01

Did the OP say it was one of those shirts?

What about this.

Jins · 18/11/2011 14:23

OP said the motif was on the side so I don't think that any of the shirts linked are the one

Original poster
quackermoomoo · 18/11/2011 14:31

Nope wasn't one of those t-shirts bruffin and not the philosophy football one either (I have that one) I cant find it on the net otherwise I would show you all but no red star - it was just her as a motif on the side.

DD asked if she could borrow troksky jumper - she decided to wear it maybe some would class it as inflammatory but others would class it as an exceptable expression, maybe it was childish but she is a teenager arent they meant to not be drones to anger people and to stand up against things? As adults we should maybe do it more, we dont have the luxery of age to fall back on to be rebels once more. DD choose to wear it, her decision and I'm not going to tell her outherwise.

She did stand up for herself - but felt that she needed external backing when it came to HT. She said she was staying then said that if they had a problem with it to take it up with us. school obviously expected us to back them - we did, I supported my DD.She didn't get me to fight her battles. And sometimes at that age esp with schools you need someone else backing you as students otherwise some people will be inclinded to walk all over you and not treat you as youge adults with minds of their own.

Lenin and Troksky are not Stalin - fyi they both despised him.

aurynne
'I believe you should stop using your DD to make political points and let her have an education, so in the future she will have the ability to form her own political ideas.' She decided to wear it, she is very interested in our family history, she is making up her own mind about her politics, Not using her?? where did you get that from?

I don't mention it all the time either but she was wearing it because she decided to be connected with her family past that is wonderful surely to want to be engaged in and interested? 'People here have no idea who Dolores Ibarruri is and, frankly, neither should they' Well glasgow, manchester and London all have things dedicated to her so some people do.

'Franco died 35 years ago. Spain is a democracy. Just in case you hadn't noticed, hey?' Yeah I did my GP where imprissoned by him, I remember men coming to look around house and how parents would tell us not to do certain things. that doesn't mean I and my family cant remember civil war and what my family and many others lost.

OP posts:
juuule · 18/11/2011 14:48

"she is a teenager arent they meant to not be drones to anger people and to stand up against things?"

Agree they are not meant to be drones but disagree that they are meant to anger people. They might do that but there isn't a rule that they must be like that. Usually people stop angering others as they mature because they find that a different approach usually gets better results. I don't think it's a good idea to encourage a young person to provoke or anger someone in the name of being a teenager (probably not a good thing to encourage in anyone except in extremis)

minervaitalica · 18/11/2011 15:30

"that doesn't mean I and my family cant remember civil war and what my family and many others lost.". Absolutely. Unfortunately a lot of people on this thread do not think Russian/Chinese/Cambodians have the same right.

She is not meant to be a drone, but you sound more pleased that she pissed off an idiotic HM (hardly a big win) than the actual political "angle" to the situation which is actually rather interesting.
I disagree with my bosses all the time in real life, and they are very aware of it (I tell them all the time!). But there are positive ways of doing it, and less positive ones - and I have the feeling that perhaps this, with your help, could have been handled in more positive ways.

exoticfruits · 18/11/2011 16:25

I think that OP and DD are mightily pleased to have 'won' the battle BUT I think that when they have time to reflect they will discover that they have lost more than they won. If I was the Head I would have a new dress code to be signed on Monday.

Hullygully · 18/11/2011 16:53

I'd have them taken out and shot. Those Russkies knew a thing or two.

exoticfruits · 18/11/2011 17:07

It is a mountain out of a molehill. I would recommend keeping her head down from now on and being particularly mature, in the thoughts that she needs to give positive vibes for the reference she needs. She may think that her stance has a lot to recommend her-many people thing 'how petty-wear a different Tshirt'.