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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to tell DD to stay put and not do what her teacher has just told her?

241 replies

quackermoomoo · 16/11/2011 09:48

DD1 is in 6 form - they don't have a uniform, their rules just say that nothing lowcut or very short, beach attire etc

I'm spanish - my great GP all fought on Republican side in civil war, GP involved against Franco as were parents.

My Grandfather bought my DD a t-shirt for her birthday a few days ago. She really likes it (okay so it is winter so she is wearing a long sleeved black top under it) and went to school wearing it. It has a montif of Dolores Ibarruri on the side. (DD has just got very into our family history)

She has just phoned to say she has been told to go home. She is obviously shocked. The school send people home to get changed if clothes dont match the code. Head of 6 form told her that political symbols are againt school rules - I just checked no where in cotract she signed does it say that.

I have seen students walking to school past our house wearing tops with Che Guevara on and one person in DS1 class wore a Tory party top when the elction was on (he is at uni) and they were allowed to wear it.

She doesn't want to go home and change and I don't think she should have to.

I told her to stay put and if head says anything tell him to phone me. We shall wait and see

AIBU to not back up school?

OP posts:
mnistooaddictive · 18/11/2011 03:59

I find it really sad that you need to resort to petty point scoring rather than focusing on her education. Does it make you feel important or are you always this petty?

bruffin · 18/11/2011 07:24

Agree with both maths and mnistooaddictive

exoticfruits · 18/11/2011 07:30

I agree with them too-petty in the extreme. Why make yourself unpopular-especially when she needs the school for her UCAS form?
Save arguments for things that matter and the Tshirt for out of school wear.

aurynne · 18/11/2011 07:35

I believe you should stop using your DD to make political points and let her have an education, so in the future she will have the ability to form her own political ideas.

BTW, I am Spanish too. This does not make us any special and so far I have never felt the urge to bring it out unless directly related to the matter discussed. People here have no idea who Dolores Ibarruri is and, frankly, neither should they.

PS Franco died 35 years ago. Spain is a democracy. Just in case you hadn't noticed, hey? :)

MidnightHag · 18/11/2011 07:43

I suppose it's good to see someone standing up for their beliefs, but I don't condone the undermining of the 6th form head's authority. He has a tough job maintaining discipline with the wide range of aptitudes and attitudes you get at key stage 5 these days.
OP: your daughter had made her point by wearing the tee shirt, but should not have refused to go home and change.If she can't accept the authority of the management she shouldn't be at the school.
Secondly, who do you think will be writing her reference for uni?

exoticfruits · 18/11/2011 07:56

I always believe in saving arguments with schools for important issues on education. You and your DD and have now got names for yourselves where people roll their eyes and think 'oh no-the Tshirt people' and give you a wide berth.
She has less than a year at school-silly to rock the boat over an item of clothing she could have covered up.
Foremost in my mind would be the reference she will need very shortly.

hocuspontas · 18/11/2011 08:16

Yikes! I think I would have left it and asked that the dress code be made clearer. Our heads of 6th form are always changing the dress code - it's probably the same everywhere. As others have said you need a good reference. Good luck!

DaisySteiner · 18/11/2011 08:23

Fingers crossed the head isn't going to be writing her UCAS reference....

TiarasTimeOutsAndTantrums · 18/11/2011 08:31

Go you OP!

Grumpla · 18/11/2011 08:41

The Head has made himself look like an idiot.

If it is not against the rules, it is not against the rules. It's as simple as that. If he wants to ban political symbols from the dress code then that has to be put into the dress code. It's not something individual teachers can decide on an ad-hoc basis.

My own headteacher attempted to tell me off for having blue hair and a pierced tongue in 6th form, when I asked him very politely to point out where it said I was not allowed these things even he had the grace to back down.

You are right to support your daughter. However, I would add the caveat that if they do amend the dress code for next term then that would change the situation dramatically. Dress codes etc are part of an agreement between her and the school and that should be consistently applied and stuck to by both sides.

nokissymum · 18/11/2011 08:45

OP your account of what finally happened just filled me with sadness. You may have won the battle, but you have completely lost the war. Your DD has now lost all respect for authority at her school, you may have had a point, but it was at a great expense and it will come back to bite you both later, that i'm almost certain of.

OhTheConfusion · 18/11/2011 08:48

Trotskey is hardly someone to admire, his Jewish background does not excuse his political evils... would Lenin or Stalin t-shirts be acceptable in your household too?

If my children went to school where such images were being worn I would complain to the local authority. A blanket ban should be placed on all such items. Have you stopped to consider the heritage of other students such as the Russian or Polish? or does your own history merely trump everyone elses with regards to importance?

I honestly can't figure out why a woman who has such pride (very fairly placed) in her Spanish history could also support a man who's views were so simmilar to those of the Franco regime and his supporters such as Nazi Germany Confused

bruffin · 18/11/2011 08:49

Doesn't anyone see the irony of this thread?

Towndon · 18/11/2011 09:11

I would have thought it was common sense that plain-ish ordinary clothing was most appropriate for school. Would you all really turn up at work in a T-shirt like this, even if it wasn't explicitly forbidden in the dress code?

minervaitalica · 18/11/2011 09:16

Ohtheconfusion... Don't go there... Apparently wearing Stalin's t-shirts is Ok because although he killed millions he did not have racial motives (see posts above).

Hullygully · 18/11/2011 09:20

Respect.

That is an interesting one, I think that respect has to be earned, it is not something to be given automatically. I would be horrified if my dc "respected" without question a Head who seemed unaware of his own rules and applied arbitrary and summary judgment.

aldiwhore · 18/11/2011 09:24

I hope this 'battle' makes the head rethink the official rules. Whilst I agreed with you earlier that if its not against the rules then its fair game, I do believe a rule needs to be created. School shouldn't really be about showing allegiance to certain politics.

If someone wore a Hitler t-shirt there would be (rightly) an uproar. When political figures appear on t-shirts in school, you're on dangerous ground, there's always two sides, theres always someone who holds an opposing view and it can look antagonistic. On the flip side, 'trendy' political figures on t-shirts are pretty lame, when most people who wear them aren't really sure exactly why these figures are important. (OP's dd not included lol)

I don't think any damage has been done. I was a rebel at school and it didn't damage me, a little rebellion isn't a bad thing, and if you're confident that you're right, or certain that the point you were trying to prove was worth it, I don't think 'you've lost all respect' of the staff. And really, if the Head writes "wore a political slogan" on an UCAS form, the Uni will probably laugh and think "Here's a young woman who thinks" so it may well do good rather than harm.

Hullygully · 18/11/2011 09:26

As some of us keep asking, what is wrong with debate and argument?

To say that political views and debates have no place IN A SCHOOL is just hilarious.

clams · 18/11/2011 09:33

Borrowed my Trotsky jumper? FFS. Please don't conflate the heroes of the Spanish Civil War with him. If she wore that I'd have her out of school by first break for wearing a mass murderer on her top. Nor would I be that pleasant if her and her mother made a point of regularly challenging the school authority on some sub Citizen Smith issues.

The won the battle and lost the war comment from nokissy is spot on.

Hullygully · 18/11/2011 09:39

Yes because a Trotsky jumper is like rilly rilly scary and threatening...

Or a springboard for an interesting political debate as part of the educative process that is supposed ot go on in a school.

What is everyone so scared of?

ragged · 18/11/2011 09:46

Good for you & your DD, OP. Question Authority.

fedupofnamechanging · 18/11/2011 10:16

He was a bullying arse, and now has been publicly shown up to be a bullying arse. I'm not sure we should all be keeping our heads down, for fear of pissing off authority. That way lies dictatorship and oppression.

I would not have gone with the Trotsky jumper though. You won't have a leg to stand on if some smart arse kid turns up in a Hitler top tomorrow, just to stir.

clams · 18/11/2011 10:26

Hullygully I don't think that a Trotsky jumper is scary. I do think it's inappropriate school wear, too juvenile (politically and sartorially) for the OP to wear and a piss-poor reason to start another row with the school over.

I think that the ability to question authority is an important life skill, especially for a teenage girl. As is recognising when it should be questioned. I wouldn't have made an issue of the first incident tbh though and I sure as hell wouldn't be encouraging her to wear historical murderers "heros" clothing every day to show defiance to the head teacher.

knitknack · 18/11/2011 10:30

I teach cold war and WW2 at A level, and I seriously cannot believe that a history teacher has a stalin mug???? I am flaberghasted!

As I was a few weeks ago at VIth form open evening when a mother told her son that Stalin was a 'genius' ?!?!

FWIW, I'm sure all history teachers would have recognised her - does your daughter do history? Or politics?

Our students wear 'business wear' (loosely interpreted!)

LeBOF · 18/11/2011 10:35

Trotsky was not a mass murderer. He massively opposed Stalun and his policies. Hence why he ended up with an ice pick in his head.