to tell DD to stay put and not do what her teacher has just told her?

[quackermoomoo]

DD1 is in 6 form - they don't have a uniform, their rules just say that nothing lowcut or very short, beach attire etc

I'm spanish - my great GP all fought on Republican side in civil war, GP involved against Franco as were parents.

My Grandfather bought my DD a t-shirt for her birthday a few days ago. She really likes it (okay so it is winter so she is wearing a long sleeved black top under it) and went to school wearing it. It has a montif of Dolores Ibarruri on the side. (DD has just got very into our family history)

She has just phoned to say she has been told to go home. She is obviously shocked. The school send people home to get changed if clothes dont match the code. Head of 6 form told her that political symbols are againt school rules - I just checked no where in cotract she signed does it say that.

I have seen students walking to school past our house wearing tops with Che Guevara on and one person in DS1 class wore a Tory party top when the elction was on (he is at uni) and they were allowed to wear it.

She doesn't want to go home and change and I don't think she should have to.

I told her to stay put and if head says anything tell him to phone me. We shall wait and see

AIBU to not back up school?

minervaitalica, the question ought to be "Why should it be
banned?" not "Why shouldn't it?" The latter question assumes there is some default option of banning images that aren't deemed of people deemed good. It is really shocking how conformist a society we are seeming to become.

Why shouldn't a teacher have an image of Stalin on a mug? We (rightly) have specific rules againt incitement to racial hatred, and if an image of Hitler constituted such incitment then there would be a case for banning it. But it would be hard to argue that an image of Stalin was an incitement to racial hatred. So why is it wrong to have it in the possession of a teacher? There is no general rule that bad people shouldn't be on display.

What is everyone so afraid of? What is all this conformist timidity?

Too much Power To The Parents?

You just know with this stuff that Someone Will Be Offended, and complain to the school, etc etc, and it willjust waste all the teachers' time.

Why would it be hard to argue that an image of Stalin was an incitement to racial hatred? Many Jews died under his regime as well, just in a more sneaky fashion.
He was a Very Bad Man.

Well, this t-shirt may not have provoked a useful historical-political discussion at the OP's DD's school but it sure as hell has done on here!

We went to my DDs history presentation. It was year 7s answering a question they had set themselves in History.
A group of boys set themselves a question. Who was more evil Stalin or Hitler.
They decided on Hitler, but on the q &a at the end an older lady stood up and really lambasted them. I think she may have been on russian heritage but felt they had just underestimated the amount of russians that had been killed under Stalin's regime.
I did feel a bit sorry for the boys as they were only 11/12.
She obviously would have found anything with Stalin on deeply offensive.

Never quite understand why extreme left is more acceptable than extreme right, they are just as bad as each other.

DCs 6th form is very strict, both girls and boys wear suits to school, and tshirts would be banned whatever they had on there.

quacker what happened, did your DD argue her right to wear her t-shirt?

People forget that when they talk about Russia, what they really mean is the USSR. Stalin was as guilty of ethnic cleansing as Hitler.

I have a real issue with teachers giving their own political viewpoints to children. That's not their job and imo it's taking advantage of a captive audience.

Haven't several British Councils erected statues to La Passionara? There's definitely one in Glasgow, by the Clyde, not too far from the Cathedral. It's quite striking. Whereas, to the best of my knowledge, there are no statues of Stalin, Mao etc in Britain.

She's an iconic female historical figure - your daughter should wear her T-shirt with pride!

Google tells me there's a "prominent memorial" to La Passionara in Manchester Town Hall. I thought there was one in London, but Google's not finding it.

I said in my first post that the school is in the wrong - so I never argued for banning anything. I am just saying that people should have their facts before deciding to wear certain items of clothing or support a certain ideology, and I will challenge people who wear a Mao t-shirt because they think it's cool.

It's not even hard to argue that Stalin was a racist, by the way: he started a ruthless programme of mass Russification to iron out differences in what was a very culturally heterogenous country. He also killed people becasue they dared practise their religion: since when is that not as bad as racial hatred? And we do have laws protecting freedom of religion, yes?
In any case, 20 millions people were tortured and killed under his regime, and that's enough for me anyhow. So yes, unless that history teacher used that specific mug as inspiration for a discussion like we are having, in which case I could understand the point, I would probably question it (or a Mao mug, or a Pol Pot mug, or a Mussolini mug).

Disclaimer: no relatives of mine (that I know of) were affected directly by Stalin, Pol Pot. Hitler and Mussolini, unfortunately, yes.

Found it - I was thinking of the International Brigade Memorial in London, but it's not actually of her, it's a sort of abstract sculpture.

Not sure if you were refering to my post or not, but it was a parent/grandparent that spoke up, not a teacher.

op, think you might be wrong about it not being in the rules, it might not be on the dress code bit, but there is more than likely something in the rules about the school being a neutral environment etc...

Agree blondie80
At Dcs school everytime there is non uniform day there is a reminder of the general rules of no offensive shirts, football shirts etc

I too am horrified that a history teacher would have a Stalin mug. What the hell are they thinking? I do think that is every bit as bad as a having a mug with Hitler on. We're not talking about showing posters from dictatorships for educational reasons. I actually would complain to the school about that.

A student wearing a Lenin T-shirt would be OK. But a teacher with a Stalin mug?? The mind boggles. Am not familiar enough with the Spanish history to comment on the OP but tend to think you should let DD fight her own battles.

Seriously, who is going to be offended by a Dolores Ibarruri T-shirt? There are Memorials to the International Brigades up and down the country. Less than a week after Remembrance Day, your daughter is being told that a symbol of the opposition to European Fascism in the 1930s is political?? What about the veterans wearing their medals at the Cenotaph last week - they opposed fascism in the 1930s too - are their medals "political" too?

As that well-known left wing figure, Michael Portillo said, with reference to the Spanish Civil War "democracy is not something that happens automatically; it had to be gained over a long period of time; it had to be defended. A lot of people had to die in order to defend it ...let's not take it for granted"

But bruffin, if I was the OP or her daughter it would not occur to me that 'offensive' meant La Pasionaria! That is frankly a bit of a leap.

IMO, it feels like either ignorance or a political motivation on the part of the teacher. If other students are allowed to wear tshirts with logos on, this appears to be singling her out for no good reason.

As an aside, I was really disappointed to learn of this. Notts County Council have had an International Brigades Memorial at County Hall for a long time. Tory Councillor Kay Cutts (no joke, that's actually her name) organised the resiting of the memorial so that it is unreadable and the removal of the information board. A re-dedication ceremony was independently organised.

www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/Controversy-changes-County-Hall/story-12184541-detail/story.html
nottingham.indymedia.org/articles/181

I'm still interested how and when the change in clothing in schools happened.

campergirl, if it is the tshirt linked above then it is political ie has the red star of communism. Politics easily offends so therefore would be banned at Dcs school.

¡Joder!

well lets see - About an hour later Head obviously saw her again in common room and told her again that she must change, she told him that she didn't have to and wasn't going to - not against rules etc. He then told her off again and said she had to go home. DD told him that she wasn't leaving and had a Chemistry lesson to go to and that if that was a problem he would have to take it up with her parents. (she texted me this on way to lesson so if he did phone I knew what she said)

I then had a wonderful phone call from head telling me all this and how she will not leave, and follow school attire rules etc.

I may have read the schools attire rules (that she signed) and pointed out to him that the t-shirt didn't breech any of these rules.

He was slightly silenced and then said 'extreme political views are not welcome at school name'

asked him if he would class the Che t-shirts pubils wear as 'extreme political views' because to my knowledge pupils have been allowed to wear these? And that to some people certain parts of Tory outlooks could be 'extreme' and yet their party tshirts seem to be allowable in school? I then may have continued to say that she died in 1989 and therefore a historical figure who even the Bristih hold in high reguard evident in Glasgow statue to her and that if the school had a problem with a woman classed as one of the 20th centuary greatest speakers, who fought against Facism along with many well known british figures. Including George Orwell who Mr... is studies by my daughter in English. Does he wish to ban them studying of Orwell as well?
(i know not in same league but I was making a point)

He was silenced. Told him that DD has my full backing in what she choses to do and wear regaurding tshirt. but that if he pushed the issue of it when she has not broken any rules he should be aware that he does not have a leg to stand on.

I did tell DD what I had said to Teacher so she knew.
Teacher didn't speak to her all day after that.

So there we go. Her history teacher saw her today and was very interested in family history re civil war and told her that it was wonderful when students are engaged with politics.

She bought herself a internation brigade t-shirt tonight as well. And she borrowed my troksky jumper today for school. Said HT saw her and just walked by say 'hmm' with pressed lips.

She kept in on all day.

Thanks

Am very surprised that the school doesn't have a 'catch all' phrase in the dress code, such as 'disputes will be settled at the head's discretion'. Mine did, and it certainly avoided any such problems.

QuackerMooMoo I just want to say Hurrahh! to both you and your daughter . I loved your response and more power to your daughter.

Well done Quackermoomoo and daughter! Chip off the old block, isn't she?

Am a bit that a Trotsky shirt was used to make this point. I was cheering for you up to then but I feel you pushed the envelope there. Trotsky was as ruthless as Stalin imo, and Lenin too (who was in no way a junior partner to Stalin in his abandonment of concern over numbers of millions killed/'things that had to be done' to further the Revolution).

Actually, come to think of it, trying to make a case on the basis of the idea that La Pasionaria was one of the goodies of history wasn't really a good idea, as anyone else with the view that any other figure was laudable could conceivably argue their case for wearing a T-shirt bearing their hero's image. Maybe it's fine to have students take an interest, debate, etc. But maybe the school will get a phone call from someone's granny who objects to seeing an image of Pol Pot staring out at her from a shirt when she goes to see the school her grandchild attends. If the students are worth their salt some of them should be able to make a case for pretty much anything on a shirt...

I think there may well be a new rule in the handbook beginning next year.