to tell DD to stay put and not do what her teacher has just told her?

[quackermoomoo]

DD1 is in 6 form - they don't have a uniform, their rules just say that nothing lowcut or very short, beach attire etc

I'm spanish - my great GP all fought on Republican side in civil war, GP involved against Franco as were parents.

My Grandfather bought my DD a t-shirt for her birthday a few days ago. She really likes it (okay so it is winter so she is wearing a long sleeved black top under it) and went to school wearing it. It has a montif of Dolores Ibarruri on the side. (DD has just got very into our family history)

She has just phoned to say she has been told to go home. She is obviously shocked. The school send people home to get changed if clothes dont match the code. Head of 6 form told her that political symbols are againt school rules - I just checked no where in cotract she signed does it say that.

I have seen students walking to school past our house wearing tops with Che Guevara on and one person in DS1 class wore a Tory party top when the elction was on (he is at uni) and they were allowed to wear it.

She doesn't want to go home and change and I don't think she should have to.

I told her to stay put and if head says anything tell him to phone me. We shall wait and see

AIBU to not back up school?

Quintessential - this is a 6th form we're talking about. These aren't little kids but young adults who are there VOLUNTARILY. Do you really think that OP is going to be shunned at the school gates during pick up ffs?

I totally believe in open debate, especially in a school. But there is a difference between open debate and antagonising, and whilst I don't see an issue with certain choices of motif/picture/slogan because usually they are of people I admire, there would be uproar if someone wore something that goes against the grain or has certain antagonistic messages attached.

Agree with karmabeliever

Hully

I totally believe in open debate, especially in a school. But there is a difference between open debate and antagonising, and whilst I don't see an issue with certain choices of motif/picture/slogan because usually they are of people I admire, there would be uproar if someone wore something that goes against the grain or has certain antagonistic messages attached.

What does this actually mean? Anything?

I'm quite depressed by the level of conformity that people expect from the youth of today.

They are youths. It is in their job description to rebel. When they get older they will have learned how to decide which battles to fight and hopefully which ones are important to win

aldi

I totally believe in freedom of expression especially in schools. I don't believe we have it in this country though. I know it's the done thing on MN to slag off the Americans, but boy are they right on the money on stuff like this.

Yes, hully - there is a lot of ignorance on this thread - and mostly from those who do not seem to understand why a "Communist" leaning t-shirt or mug can be as offensive as a fascist one.

In any case, OP's DD was right to complain to the Headmaster. But the Trotsky thing was a bit immature - I would have suggested to the HM that this was a good opportunity for a school debate/activity on freedom of speech/expression in our society (and its limits), or a history project about the main currents of political thought in the 20th century. That would have provided OP's DD and her fellow students (and, from the look of it, the HM) a practical example of how "political debate" can apply to everyday life, even a sixth former's. It's the kind of thing we did at school - and in fact we did challenge a rule (the good "inter-corridor rule") exactly through that: calm, intelligent and well-argued debate.

Malinois, no, I did not think the OP was expected to pick up her dd from school in 6th form. What have I said to attract such venom?

There is nothing wrong with conformity, we need to learn to conform to get along with other people. I think the need to be seen as a "rebel" is completely overrated. It turns any argument to be about "you" rather than being able to see the bigger picture.

I'd rather my children be able to fight their own corner by being able to bring others to their side of the arguement without antagonising others. They need to learn how their opinions affect others.

I was listen to one of the St Pauls protesters on the radio yesterday, She could not see how their protest was affecting the ordinary man in the street.

I am afraid I have no idea what you're talking about, bruffin.

Still waiting for a list of Trotsky's offences here.

Quintessential - sorry :( It was the comment about OP being mum of the year that I misinterpreted.

Oh I agree. Being a 'rebel' is overrated.

I learned through experience though

bruffin Why do you need to conform to get along with other people? Conformity to me means accepting the role prescribed for you in society and increasingly that role appears to be to work, pay your taxes and stfu. To be a happy drone, working to make others richer, to support a system that is directly against your best interests.

When I was at school, we read 1984. Our mostly left-leaning teachers saw it as apposite warning against what they saw as the neo-fascism of Thatcherism.

My generation decided to build a neo-liberal world instead, one that has gone far beyond what Thatcher and her advisers planned.

Our teachers should have made us read Brave New World instead.

Oh I didn't seek a row with the Trots but as you ask, my reasons for objecting to Trotsky are that he was responsible for thousands of deaths, was anti-democratic, that his October Revolution overthrew the democratic February Revolution and led to state-sponsored famine, gulags, Stalin and the deaths of millions of Russian people. Some of the ideals of Marx and Lenin and Trotsky sound so just but in reality they led to a totalitarian murderous state. And defending Lenin and Trotsky because they weren't as bad as Stalin is as morally bankrupt as me saying that I like Harold Shipman because he wasn't as bad as Fred West.

And back to the topic, it strikes me that if this was an issue of free-expression of a young adult then the young adult's mum wouldn't be phoning the school to give the teacher a history lesson. OP's DD is bound to and should be rebelling at her age. Her mum probably shouldn't be stirring getting involved.

clams makes a fair point in that last paragraph.

Would you like to take that one Boffy?

I appear to have lost the will to live.

Stalin overthrew the democratic revolution. The October revolution was genuinely democratic, with workers' councils having instant recall of their representatives- far more democratic and inclusive than what existed previously. Lenin did not lead to Stalin: Stalin systematically reversed everything that the October Revolution had stood for. It's like saying that Martin Luther King led to 9/11.

I always used to wear CND t-shirts in school when I was in the 6th form and really can't see how different that would be. Perhaps another way of doing it from the schools point of view would be to ban t-shirts with motifs / slogans?

No conformity is not accepting the rule for you in society, it is about accepting the rules of society and changing them from within.

Agree totally with everything clam says

Also the OP's dd didn't sort this out for herself, the first thing she did was ring her mum up, hardly and independent thinking rebel!

Please respect the school rules. OK, they may not be as clear and consice as necessary but by instructing your daughter to disregard instructions by teachers you are teaching her to disrespect the school's authority. Parents who exhibit the 'you don't tell me what to do' mentality only push this attitude on to their children and that is why there is so little respect for anyone else other than the 'self' in society.

Conforming does not involve changing anything from within. If it did it wouldn't be conforming

Of course you can conform and change from within. Ie wear the correct clothing but join school council or lobby said council for a change of dress code to wear political tshirts.