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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to wish there were more role models on TV for people like me?

149 replies

entropygirl · 14/11/2011 12:39

So when it comes to everything from movies, through news readers, to childrens presenters you get representation for men, women, young, old (well older men anyway) you even get the occasional ethnic minority/person with disability. What you never ever get is anyone who is, shall we say, less than averagely attractive.

But us less than averagely attractive uglies (by definition) make up half the population but have absolutely no role models whatsoever. I am ugly and the chances are that my DD will be too (genetics being what it is) and I would love for her to grow up in a world that wasn't adamant that in order to be successful, rich, happy or even smart the one necessary criteria is to be good looking.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Dirtydishesmakemesad · 14/11/2011 14:19

My dds have an example in me for the average looking woman. I would not describe myself as below average as that is a horrible way to describe yourself but I am i would say homely Grin. I dont wear makeup unless its special day out or something I wear comfortable clothes. I have 4 daughters i really hope and pray that they never model themselves on anyone they see on tv!

SuePurblybiltbyElves · 14/11/2011 14:19

Loose Wimmin and Eastenders. Surely they'd make anyone feel better about themselves? Not the Loaded lot, Pat and her friends. The one with the scary eyes who was shagging Phil. Her.
Or Sister Wendy, though she is the subject of much piss taking, the poor love.

I can think of many more ugly men on TV than women, you're right.

entropygirl · 14/11/2011 14:24

Dirty lol at the idea that being below average is horrible....Im now wondering what fraction of the general population rate themselves as above average....I'm guessing it would be waaaay more than the defined 50%......would make interesting reading I think. May start a new thread.

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DamnBamboo · 14/11/2011 14:30

See OP, I don't think that I have every seen anybody really that ugly.
There are often unattractive people around but often it may came down to bad skin (as in from too much smoking, or dark shadows etc..), bad hairstyle or unclean hair, bad clothes and make-up etc.

I just don't think there are as many ugly people out there as you seem to say.

Why do you have to get your role models from TV anyway?

My DSs barely watch TV and wouldn't know who these celebrities or presenters are, and they wouldn't give a fig what they look like.

It's absolutely fine not to be beautiful and it's absolutely fine to work with what you've got to make yourself (generally speaking) feel and look better.

You'd be doing a better job by showing your daughter how to make the best of what she's got (if you have a DD) without resorting to surgical enhancement and also not to judge people on their looks.

DamnBamboo · 14/11/2011 14:34

Can you not try to impress upon her role models including scientists (Franklin, Marie Curie), writers (take your pick), women activists (Rosa Parks)?

kerrymumbles · 14/11/2011 14:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ditzymitzy2 · 14/11/2011 14:39

why are you looking to telly for role models?

exactly what i was thinking

why does any one need to copy anyone else??

It does make me laugh at the bimbos presenting the Sky Sports stuff though, wonder how they got the job lol - they all look like clones, long hair, low cut dresses, lots of makeup. sniggers

quietlyafraid · 14/11/2011 14:45

I might get my head chewed off for this, but theres some interesting looking female politicians. Whilst not the most respected profession at times, I think in terms of looking for a female role who works hard, is (generally) intelligent and equals her peers, then the profession shouldn't be sniffed at.

Role models do not have to be actresses, models or tv presenters...

Theres plenty of less attractive sportswomen too. Fatima Whitbread has already been meantioned. I wouldn't call Sally Gunnell or Beth Tweddle likely winners of Miss UK either.

I think perhaps you are looking in the wrong directions...

TheScarlettPimpernel · 14/11/2011 14:52

I honestly think that there's no such thing as ugly.

OP love, you mentioned about your Mother telling you there were things you couldn't wear?

I think you are carrying with you a frankly contemptible comment from your mother that has coloured your perception of yourself, and it does you immense credit that you are so determined not to let your daughter feel the same.

Attractiveness comes, I think, from 2 things: a lovely open, honest, smiling, affectionate and interesting face (which can be boss-eyed and treble-chinned), and from grooming and taking care in your appearance (again, could be boss-eyed and treble chinned!).

I am generally thought to have a lovely face (I'm very fat though Grin). However, if I go out in a disgusting strop, with a horrid stroppy facial expression and greasy hair, and spots, and no makeup, and smelling, you betcha I look ugly. Someone with a less objectively nice face than mine, but well taken care of, and smiling and direct, would look about a THOUSAND TIMES more attractive than me in that state.

Which is a roundabout way of saying that you musn't let that awful comment affect whether or not you choose to be groomed and made-up. If you don't want to be because that's not your choice, then fine.

But if you don't do it because you think you somehow don't deserve it, that's really not fine at all.

That being said I think what folks have said is quite right, and that this fixation on physical comeliness is bloody annoying, especially since it applies to women more than men Hmm.

There are loads of other places to look for heroines. Google the female winners of the George Cross for instance: no-one remembers that air hostess woman for whether or not she had good skin, but because of her astonishing acts of courage and self-sacrifice in saving many lives. No-one remembers Austen for her looks (which judging by her sole portrait was never going to launch a thousand ships) but for her amazing wit and skill.

gamerwidow · 14/11/2011 14:54

I also don't think you should be looking to tv and the media for role models. Fame and celebrity are shallow pursuits and even the best tv and film stars are more than a bit superficial.
I do agree that our concept of beauty has been skewed by the media and women are not allowed to look average or "natural" any more and the fake tanned, over coiffed and over madeup look is in favour instead.
I think there are very few truely ugly people, especially in the flesh. In the flesh people you would initially find unattractive often get more attractive as you get to know them and their aura shines through (sorry for very flaky term but i don't know how else to describe it).

quietlyafraid · 14/11/2011 14:57

Attractiveness comes, I think, from 2 things: a lovely open, honest, smiling, affectionate and interesting face (which can be boss-eyed and treble-chinned), and from grooming and taking care in your appearance (again, could be boss-eyed and treble chinned!).

You forgot confidence. A pretty girl can sit at a party by herself being a wall flower with no one interested in her. A less attractive girl (and I am very hesitant to use the word ugly for this very reason) can be the life and sole of the party and be hounded by lots of male admirers.

TheScarlettPimpernel · 14/11/2011 14:59

That's very true quietly...

marriedinwhite · 14/11/2011 15:02

OP my comment about the theatrical make-up artist was in response to yours about a make-up company using an unattractive person for campaigns and doing a brilliant before and after job and the fact that that is something that would persuade you to use make-up. I'm sorry if I caused you offence I didn't intend to and the last thought from my mind was to upset you.

I think there are many positive comments here and am not going to add to them in case it upsets you more.

My apologies.

entropygirl · 14/11/2011 15:08

married ooohh nonono you didnt offend me! Sorry if I cam across snappish I really didnt mean to.

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WibblyBibble · 14/11/2011 15:08

I agree with you OP. I wouldn't say either of my daughters were ugly, but one is probably going to grow up to be more physically pretty than the other, and I'm really dreading that she gets treated better because of this (I had the same with my sister when I was little- she was lovely with blonde curls etc until she became all goth as a teenager, but still prettier than me, and I used to actually get adults saying horrible patronising things about it). It's not so much even TV but in films, e.g. where you get in the Harry Potter films, Hermione who is supposed (according to JK Rowling!) to be a plainish, chubbyish brown-unmanageable-haired girl with bad teeth, and in the film she's some fucking blonde supermodel clone- where are clever, bookish, plain girls supposed to find anyone like them now? At least back when we were kids there were plain girls in some of the kids TV things (I think in the old Narnia adaptations, for example- Lucy was chubby and not exactly model-like), but now it's all skinny, beautiful ones! I don't expect my kids to take all their role models from TV (mine when I was a kid were famous scientists), but it would be nice to have more diversity just to represent the true human population, and especially where a character is supposed to be plain/ugly, it's just stupid to cast someone really pretty as them.

quietlyafraid · 14/11/2011 15:10

Dawn French? Is she ugly or beautiful?

I think you could have people argue the case for both. But whats stands out with her?

Her personality, her confidence, her smile and her sense of humour. She's certainly not unlikeable.

Would you rather go for a drink with Dawn French or Tess Daly?

Answer honestly. Now teach your daughter this.

And also teach her to accept compliments at all times and believe them, rather than think they are ever made out of pity. They very rarely are, but I think sometimes its easy to disregard them if you see the person making them as 'better' or 'more attractive' in anyway.

Build her self asteem in other ways. Teach her to be confident in her own abilities and talents. And she will shine.

entropygirl · 14/11/2011 15:12

hmm well I was going to say that OBVIOUSLY I am not looking for role models on TV - just that it feels like a lost cause telling my DD that looks dont matter when the media is hell bent on convincing her that they do.

But then I read my OP and it does sort of sound like I cant think of more worthwhile role models. Sorry about that.

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TheScarlettPimpernel · 14/11/2011 15:17

YEAH entropy read a fugging book once in a while why doncha Grin Grin

Seriously though. I think you sound ace. IMHO. And I bet the aceness SHOWS.

entropygirl · 14/11/2011 15:20

wibbly absolutely couldnt agree more. Its nearly as bad as changing the racial background of characters and makes me Angry.

In fact the only thing that makes me more Angry is the inevitable association of smart, successful with beauty, and the concomitant association of ugly with evil.
Think cinderalla and the step sisters, think princesses versus evil witches in ANY disney film. I think the worst thing going at the moment is the trend of using token uglies in movies but only ever in roles in which they are evil, stupid or in some way useless.

If every time there was a disabled/ethnic character they were portrayed as evil, stupid and useless you would hear a lot more about it......

OP posts:
quietlyafraid · 14/11/2011 15:20

The media is a fabrication though. When she's older maybe encourage her to do a Media Studies module of some description. As soon as you are taught to deconstruct a media construct it does help to counteract things you may otherwise take at face value.

Its not a lost cause - its just you may need to focus on other areas and other factors to make her feel better about herself. I forget who it is now, but I remember reading an interview with a famous lady who wouldn't win modelling awards and she said the best thing her Dad ever did for her, was tell her everyday how wonderful and how beautiful she was and how it made her feel so special and confident in herself. She was aware she wasn't picture perfect in the eyes of everyone, but she didn't mind she still believed she had her own beauty. I remember it clearly now and it was a while since I read it. Wonderfully confident woman.

I would rather be interesting and remembered than beautiful and forgotten.

entropygirl · 14/11/2011 15:22

scarlett Grin

mind you books can be as bad....I mean its much less effort to describe a woman as beautiful than to be arsed writing an extra paragraph to explain that although she is bottom 50% her shining wit and character more than make up for it...etc etc.

Better than the movies though I agree....

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TheScarlettPimpernel · 14/11/2011 15:24

"Do you think, because I am poor, obscure, plain, and little, I am soulless and heartless? You think wrong! ? I have as much soul as you ? and full as much heart!"

Jane Eyre

And she got Mr Rochester, not that blonde bint!

marriedinwhite · 14/11/2011 15:25

Ugly women: Ugly Betty, Betty Davis, Cathy Burke, Patricia Hayes, Ann Widdcombe. All of them exceptionally successful. Have met the latter three and they look in rl pretty much as they do on screen. Have also met Joanna Lumley, Annieka Rice, Amanda Burton and Diana PofW in rl too - funnily enough they didn't look nearly as good as they do on the telly.

entropygirl · 14/11/2011 15:26

*quietly - thats interesting! I would have assumed that if I told her she was beautiful it would just set her up for crushing humiliation at school.....and 'you are beautiful to me' sounds horribly patronising even if its true.

But I can totally see how knowing someone thinks you are the absolute best can give you the confidence to face others who dont. Will certainly hold that thought!

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entropygirl · 14/11/2011 15:28

Sooooo wish she was described as 'that blond bint' in the book!

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