to confiscate her bank card?

[WongaWoman]

Today I opened the October bank statement of my eldest DD (19) and was horrified to discover that she was overdrawn by £280, had been charged nearly £90 in authorised and unauthorised overdraft charges, had accrued over £40 so far this month in charges, and she had received a payday loan of £100 from a well known online payday loan company earlier in October.

She is only on apprentice pay of £2.60 per hour! I have now nearly killed myself to pay off her payday loan and overdraft. With back up from my DH I have confiscated her bank card until I get all my money back as I thought it was the cheapest option for her. She was in floods of tears tonight in embarrassment and at losing her independence.

I don't really know what else I could have done. AIBU?

So, what would you all have done in the OP's position? Allowed her daughter to be chased by dodgy loan sharks? Let her go bankrupt? I only have tiny children but if at any point in their lives I saw an envelope with a loan shark's monicker on it, I would make it my business to help them to sort out the problem. I probably would just produce the envelope and start a discussion based on that rather than opening it, but it is not a huge difference.

And for those who are hysterically saying the OP has committed a crime, I don't see her daughter screaming to the police. I suspect that she is secretly relieved to have been helped and has probably learned the error of her ways.

The age of majority is just a number. People are only truly adults when they are living away from home (or at home and paying rent, doing their own shopping, cooking etc) and taking full responsibility for their own lives. It is a relationship (though cannot be compared to a romantic relationship) and both parties define the nature of the relationship. If an adult child still expects to get everything done for them at home, not pay towards their upkeep etc, then they have not earned the right to be treated as an adult.

So, what would you all have done in the OP's position?

Not opened someone else's post in the first place.

If I suspected that my hypothetical DD was having money issues I would have made it clear that I was there to help if she had any trouble, and that I would not blame her for any situation but advise her how to get out of it. But I wouldn't insist that she do anything, and I wouldn't confiscate anything, because she is an adult.

Trills,

What you say is easy if £500 and £1,000 are both tiny amounts to you. Clearly that is not the OP's position. She needed to help whilst she could still afford to, not wait for her DD to ask in her own sweet time, when the debt would probably have doubled.

People are only truly adults when they are living away from home (or at home and paying rent, doing their own shopping, cooking etc) and taking full responsibility for their own lives.

That's why grown adults who stand on their own two feet and live away from home, never have money issues and never buy things or run up debts they cannot pay for?

Some adults can have less sense than children when it comes to money.

A1980,

What you say in response is a complete non sequitur. Of course adults can be irresponsible with money but by taking the step of declaring their independence they have earned the right to be treated like adults. That right is also the right to make your own mistakes and earn sometimes harsh lessons. I never said being an adult was always a bed of roses.

Also, had the OP left it, her DD would likely have ended up with a CCJ and negative credit rating. The consequnce would be she could not borrow money ever again while at that address. Sounds like a good thing IMO.

The OP's DD would not have been made bankrupt, she didn't owe enough money. To go bankrupt you have to be presented with a statutory demand for a figure of over £700 that you cannot pay. Bailiffs were unlikley as she lives at her parents home and they probalby bought everyhting the DD owns.

Larry since when was being treated like an adult ever a right that had to be earned? The OP's DD is working in an apprenticeship and she made some bad choices with money. Does that mean she has no right to be treated like an adult and should still be subject to her parents lack of respect for her privacy.

A1980,

How long do you think £200 gets to £700 at an interest rate of 4,200%

Sorry forgot to add, being treated like an adult is not a right to be earned, more like a lesson to be learned once you are one.

When your adult DD's have adult problems, they should not be told they have lost their right to be treated like an adult, they should be told they're gonig to be treated as an adult would be as this is what they are. The OP ought toh ave made her DD take a second job, even a bloody paper round if need be until she pays that debt off herself. That is how an adult would be treated and that is the lesson that needs to be learned.

"The OP ought toh ave made her DD take a second job, even a bloody paper round if need be until she pays that debt off herself"

Now you are just being funny. It is OK to "make" an independent autonomous adult take a job that she does not want, yet not OK to intervene to help her out financially? I don't know any autonomous adults "made" to take jobs except those exploited immigrants.

A1980, How long do you think £200 gets to £700 at an interest rate of 4,200%

Not long at all. But banruptcy is also discharged very quickly these days. It's something they wiould be unlikely to do seeing as the DD has nothing to take if they do make her bankrupt, they'd never get their money. A county court would order it paid back at £5 a month....!

I still wonder why the DD concealed all of this in the first place. Perhaps becasue she feels she can't talk to mum and dad about it? I would sooner have died than tell my mum anything as a teen as I would have got a screaming match about my shortcomings rather than her helping me and giving me advice.

You ask what I would have done - that is that I would have done. It doesn't matter what the amounts are - I would not have opened another adult's post therefore the amoutn of money is irrelevant because I wouldn't have known about it until she chose to tell me about it.

Well suggest rather. In the same vein as treating your children as adults, if you get in debt, you pay for it. The suggestion of a second job is what any adult would have to do to pay it off.

One of my mum's friends DD's got in debt with 4 credit cards at the age of 20. Her mum bascially said to her, what do you want me to do about it? You got yourself in, you get yourself out. She had to work almost 7 days a week to pay it off. But she did.

But fine, do as you will with your children. Don't be surprised if they leave home pretty damn quick if at 18+ they have to earn their right to be treated as a adult under your roof.

Also Larry, an interest rate of 4200% would be challenged if it was taken to court. It is grossyl disporportionate for a debt of £100 to reach such an astronomical amout so quicky. There has been case law on this. I am a solicitor by the way. I doubt a court would ever order that the full amount be repayable when it started at £100 and ended £1000.

YANBU, I wish my mum had stepped in when I was 19

She may be an adult but she doesn't sound mature enough to deal with her own finances and could probably use your guidance

There isn't a law about this.

No there isn't a statutory law against it! But I mean "case law". I have seen cases where loans have got out of control with soaring interest rates and courts have rightly decided that the full amount including the gross interest rate would not be repaid and they decided an appropriate amount. It would be on a case by cases basis. If a £100 debt with a 4200% interest rate ended up £5000 and the person owing was taken to court, I would be very very surprised if the court ordered the full amount be payable. It's grossly disporportionate to the amount borrowed and would be challengeable.

OP you have done nothing other than postpone your daughter's education about good financial sense for another day. And possibly damaged her trust in you by opening her post.

You are treating her like a child. Don't be surprised when she continues to act like one.

Your daughter sounds as though she doesn't have a clue. A payday loan??! At 19 I was earning and managing my money fine. £300 is a pretty reasonable amount to play with once rent/bills/food are accounted for - I've survived pretty happily on far less.

You are being incredibly unreasonable to open her bank statements, but I can definitely understand it if you found a letter from a payday loan company. She obviously needs to learn how to manage money, not just to be bailed out all the time. Did she have any idea how much interest those places charge?!! Sorry but what an absolute idiot.

YABVU to take her bank card away. Lol! Is this for real??? Are you going to ground her next?

Also I think it's reasonable to open her post if it's a payday loan company with your address as they could send the bailiffs round! Have had this when we moved into a new place and the previous tenants defaulted on loans - very worrying!

You know what op? I think you did the right thing for your daughter.

It might not be the right thing for someone else's family, but you nipped something in the bud that could have led to a huge issue further down the line.

You now need to make sure that she takes control of her own finances so that you don't need to intervene again - but make sure she knows that if she is in trouble she speaks to you as soon as there is an issue, rather than when it gets to the point she is paying a foryune in bank charges.

Well done op.

a Wonga loan of £100 over seven years would cost more than the national debt

Except as Martin moneysavingexpert says, it wouldn't because you can't keep a loan going that long with them.

It is never reasonable to open someone else's post without their consent.

You shouldn't have opened her mail.

You shouldn't have confiscated her card.

You shouldn't have bailed her out (although loaning her the money to pay off the high interest borrowing on the condition that she pays it back to you over an agreed period would have been sensible.

You have just taught a person already irresponsible with money that if you are irresponsible with money someone will bail you out. Well done.

I think instead you should have:
Mentioned that you had seen a payday loan envelope and asked her about her finances, explaining the evils of these loans.

Lent (not given) her the money to pay off the high interest loans if she opened up to you about them.

Worked with her to help her manage her finances now she is an adult because for some reason she doesn't seem to have learned these skills as a younger teenager.

Shes not a child so why do you treat her like one,what she does doesnt do with her money is no concern to you.You cant treat her one way and expect her to act another,there has to be trust on both sides.It makes me think you have no idea of boundries and thats why she didnt come to you in the first place.

I think the OP should apologise for opening the letter but explain that it was a panicked decision because they were so worried about the daughter and the possible effects of a payday loan on the household. And promise not to open any future letters, unless already given to the daughter who has refused to open them.

Hopefully the daughter will be amenable to working on budgeting, either with parents' help or Martin Lewis. And OP needs to make it really clear that a) payday loans are an incredibly bad idea, and b) daughter is not getting bailed out again!