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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to confiscate her bank card?

402 replies

WongaWoman · 10/11/2011 21:11

Today I opened the October bank statement of my eldest DD (19) and was horrified to discover that she was overdrawn by £280, had been charged nearly £90 in authorised and unauthorised overdraft charges, had accrued over £40 so far this month in charges, and she had received a payday loan of £100 from a well known online payday loan company earlier in October.

She is only on apprentice pay of £2.60 per hour! I have now nearly killed myself to pay off her payday loan and overdraft. With back up from my DH I have confiscated her bank card until I get all my money back as I thought it was the cheapest option for her. She was in floods of tears tonight in embarrassment and at losing her independence.

I don't really know what else I could have done. AIBU?

OP posts:

BoffinMum · 10/11/2011 21:40

I never interfered when my daughter was this age, and later she told me off for not doing more. Yes, they are adults but they are often crap at being adults, and sometimes need bringing up short. As we see all the time in universities, it's still possible for 19 year olds to run up thousands of pounds worth of pointless debt in a very short space of time, and be lumbered with it for years thereafter. Some of them just don't seem to get the significance of this, and lack a sense of cause and effect, even if parents do everything right in terms of their financial education.

I do think it's a mistake to pay off children's debts, and they must do it themselves, but it is a bad idea to open their post. That having been said, there's nothing wrong with getting them to talk to you about finance and asking nosy questions from time to time. So I would apologise for opening her post and ask her if she would prefer it if you hung on to her bank card for the time being while she pays for things in cash and keeps a cash book, to get back on track. You can strongly counsel her to take this course of action for herself, but if she asks for the bank card back you will have to give it to her and let her face the music.

Annunziata · 10/11/2011 21:41

Why on earth is she only earning £2.60 an hour? Surely that's illegal! And to pay £100 out of that can't leave her with much at all.

You shouldn't have taken her card, she will not learn to budget her money then. You need to sit and talk more than anything.

But maybe it is a good thing that you caught the problem in time if she was sticking her head in the sand.

hellhasnofury · 10/11/2011 21:42

What's to stop her applying for another loan from another payday style place? Surely the best course of action would've been to confront her with evidence of what the op suspected and work out a plan of action together?

TattyDevine · 10/11/2011 21:43

I know you mean well OP but you sound so like my mother, even though I didn'nt do anything daft like your DD

When I was about 19 my mother opened some post that was sent to me from my University. It was about a confidential matter to do with me discontinuing a subject I knew I would fail due to attendance. I had discussed this with her and informed her that I wished to discontinue, but rather than accept that she had banged on and on about doing the subject anyway and seeing it through and this that and the other which would have only damaged my overall scores and she just couldn't see that, so I did it anyway. She then opened my post! So I opened a post office box and had all university mail sent to that in the future.

She also looked at my "bank book" as it was in those days to check my bank balance, then cross examined me to try and catch me out lying about how much money I had, which I didn't really answer except in an evasive way because I didn't see how it was her business, so didn't give her an answer as such, then she said I was a liar. This was money I was earning fair and square and nothing to do with her as I was up to date with "board" or "rent".

When I lived with my mother, I used to have to wear a splint when I was asleep because I ground my teeth so hard I was grinding them down and causing them damage.

When I moved to the UK away from her, I no longer needed the splint and I now never grind my teeth.

I love my mother to bits, but I can't live with her and there is an aspect of her personality that I can't stand and can't abide, even now I am a mother.

I can see the situation is slightly different and you do mean well, as did mine, but don't be that mother.

StrandedBear · 10/11/2011 21:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dawndonna · 10/11/2011 21:43

How dare you open somebody elses post, that in itself is a criminal offence. I do not open my 16 year old son's bank statements.
Perhaps sitting down and discussing things with her, showing where she is going wrong and helping her manage her money would be a better option.
My dm opened my post. I left home.

RoseC · 10/11/2011 21:46

YANBU and I say this as a daughter who had her bank book confiscated at thirteen when I went out and (thankfully without access to the bulk of my savings) blew £50 in one afternoon on tat.

My parents went ballistic, particularly as they were struggling at the time to keep giving us pocket money to encourage us to build good saving habits, and I didn't see my bank book for a year.

It taught me a lot of things that I needed at nineteen when all my friends were spending into their overdrafts. I think your DD is in a hard place in that she is working in a professional atmosphere (I was surrounded by equally penniless students and only worked in student jobs) with people who will have more money than her and will spend more than her by a noticeable amount. You have gone above duty in paying off the loans for her and I think it's a lesson she needs to learn.

If you can afford to could you negotiate (when you think it's sunk in) that she gets a small reduction on rent in exchange for doing household chores that she doesn't already, e.g. cooking/laundry etc. It may make her feel that she has more (my overspending was due to desperately compensating to prove to a much wealthier friend that I could, IYSWIM) and you'll get something out of it too.

Original poster

WongaWoman · 10/11/2011 21:47

£2.60 ph is legal for an apprentice. £100 board per month would have left her with £350.

OP posts:

lelainapierce · 10/11/2011 21:48

She needs financial education, direct her to mse website.

ImperialBlether · 10/11/2011 21:49

How can she sit down and discuss what's wrong when her daughter isn't opening her own statements and hasn't told her there's a problem?

Do you realise what the interest rate is on payday loans? You could be bankrupt within a very short time.

The OP's daughter clearly isn't managing her money properly - hard to do on those wages and I sympathise with her there. She needs to get into a habit of breaking her wages down into units for bus pass, lodgings/home expenses, going out, paying off debts. As she earns more she'll see the benefits, then. As it is, it sounds as though it's got out of control and I say good for the OP in helping her to sort it out. She couldn't possibly pay off a payday loan on under £3 per hour.

RoseC · 10/11/2011 21:49

Re: opening post. I can see why you did it but perhaps you should have put the unopened bank statement on the table and asked her? My parents open my bank statements (sent home as I'm still studying away) but only if I ask them to. They would never dream of opening without my say-so. I can understand however that finding a payday loan form would be worrying but I do think my parents would have asked rather than opened my letters.

RoseC · 10/11/2011 21:50

Ah, £350 is more than enough - it's what I had from my weekend jobs at uni and that kept me in food etc., with some left over.

Annunziata · 10/11/2011 21:50

That's shockingly low. Does she pay for her transport? That could very easily mount up.

ivykaty44 · 10/11/2011 21:52

Wongawoman - what made you open her mail? Was your radar twitching or was it mistake?

This is such a hard place to be as on the one hand you are her mum and you care for her, you also worry, worry about how she is going to learn and how big a mess she is going to get into.

Thing is it is her mess

and you have just taken her mess and sorted it out for her

so now she could well go and get in a mess again - there is actually nothing to stop her going and reporting her card lost or stolen and getting another one, its her own account and her cash card etc.

Thing is if you sort out this mess - will she do it again? Cos then you can sort out the mess next time

Or does this mess get bigger and bigger and she drowns and then has to sort her own life out and learn the hard way?

I really don't know what the answer is - but if anyone has a proved and tried method and does have the infinitive answer - please let me know and OP

Original poster

WongaWoman · 10/11/2011 22:00

Her transport costs are £50 per month. Leaving £300 for herself. Many adults on much higher wages than her don't have that much spending money left after bills etc!

I think she should be able to manage on that but she does go out an awful lot and she probably is trying to keep up with the higher earners she now associates with.

She has also taken up smoking (behind my back) and she does unnecessary things like rents films and dvds to watch in her room. She has a phone on a contract.

Something has to give! I have advised her to go to the doctor for some prescription nicotine patches to see her through.

OP posts:

Original poster

WongaWoman · 10/11/2011 22:03

ivykaty - no mistake! My radar was twitching! She would have hidden the bank statement from me. She knows how I feel about borrowing money!

OP posts:

quietlyafraid · 10/11/2011 22:05

WongaWoman When I was 18 in my first term at uni I racked up an almighty phone bill. I was mortified and my parents were horrified and very angry. They bailed me out as there was no way I could have paid it back. I'm very thankful for it.

It was a wake up call for me. If your daughter is upset and embarrassed, I'd take it as a good sign - I'd be more worried if she was angry about it. Perhaps you need to sit down with her and talk to her about money management and help her realise how she needs to think about how she spends her money and how she can make it go further. I think suddenly stepping out into the real world can be harder for some teenagers than others. Just cos you've turned 18 doesn't make everyone an adult.

I don't think you are taking away her independence. She's still 19 and clearly immature. I know far more people who messed up financially at that age than didn't. If she learns from the mistake without getting in a financial mess its much better, than ending up with a bigger debt she's unable to pay off and a bad credit history in the future. You did the right thing. I think you are right getting her to repay the money to you over a period of time - the worst thing you can do is let her get away with not paying you back. And you can't do it again. She has to learn from the mistake and she has to understand this.

If you were worried about you daughter, I think you were right to open the letter, if she is dependant on you and still living at home. I wouldn't normally agree, but you know your daughter and obviously thought something wasn't quite right. It can be hard to ask for help when you are 19 and mess up... even if you want to and know you should. Its probably a relief to her.

squeakytoy · 10/11/2011 22:09

Her transport costs are £50 per month. Leaving £300 for herself. Many adults on much higher wages than her don't have that much spending money left after bills etc

She is 19 for gods sakes.. we dont get many years of freedom in our lives where we have few responsibilities and can go out and have fun...

I think she should be able to manage on that but she does go out an awful lot and she probably is trying to keep up with the higher earners she now associates with.

As above, she is only young and free once in her lifetime...

She has also taken up smoking (behind my back) and she does unnecessary things like rents films and dvds to watch in her room. She has a phone on a contract

So what? She is an adult.. not a child

Something has to give! I have advised her to go to the doctor for some prescription nicotine patches to see her through.

I really think you need to take a step back, and let her make her own mistakes, and stop trying to control her.. before you end up losing her.

If my mother had been such an interference when I was 19, I would have packed my bags and left.. a mates couch would be easier to live on that have someone checking up on my every move.

Maryz · 10/11/2011 22:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JarethTheGoblinKing · 10/11/2011 22:12

You're an idiot for paying off her debt. You should have let her deal with it by herself while still safe at home. She'll expect this forever now...

worley · 10/11/2011 22:13

YABU, same as DawnDonna did, my dad would nose through my paper work and even recorded both mine and my brothers telephone conversations. I moved out.
He would open my brothers mail "by accident".

Felt betrayed and ive never been able to talk to them about any issues again.

if you dd was at uni she would be getting in to debt, would you be paying her student loans off too?

ChuffMuffin · 10/11/2011 22:16

YABVU!

And for the fourth time in the thread - why were you opening her bank statements?

ivykaty44 · 10/11/2011 22:17

WW - I don't have an answer and wish I did - your stuck between a rock and a hard place.

We can guide them but we can't force them to listen and take note...

HerdOfTinyElephants · 10/11/2011 22:19

Presumably she can just report the card lost to the bank and get another one?

Original poster

WongaWoman · 10/11/2011 22:19

worley - younger DD (18) is at uni. She is getting into debt and the plan is that she will pay her own debt once she is working in McDonalds earning megabucks!

OP posts:

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