.. to be really hacked off with my Mum over vaccinations

[MrsTwinks]

Me and DH are TTC. A passing comment from a relative about my mum and doctors got me thinking about my jabs so thought I'd better get my rubella checked.

Just back from the doctor and it turns out all vaccinations on me stopped when I was about 2. Everything. Now IIRC 1988 was pre the MMR scare, but even so I could understand that, except its all of them. They have recommended I have a polio and tetanus now, but I'm also missing BCG etc.

AIBU to be really fucked off at my mum for a)kinda for just doing it to start with but honestly really b) never bloody telling me!!

I work with kids, shes been on at me to TTC for literally years, and not once has she mentioned me not having had my jabs. The tetanus one really fucks me off too because as a teen I cut my leg open really badly on rusty metal, it got infected so bad even the holes from the stitches got all infected and she didn't let/make sure I had a tetanus booster. I suspect also she never told my Dad because he went ape when I nearly didn't have my meningitis c when I was 17. He was a SAHP with me at first as he was a student so I wonder if maybe it was only him who took me in the first place.

I'm still really mad 'cos I ust discovered it ontop of alot of other stuff she did but now its like she coulda been playing russian roulette with not only my health as a child but my kid's if I hadnt thought to check it iykwim.

and breathe

Oh forgot the link

www.dhpe.org/infect/measles.html

Um, nobody blames Wakefield for every outbreak, so thats a rather large straw man your arguing with.

That study has nothing to do with vax rates, its about whether boosters are needed in adolescence.

You seem to be conflating several separate arguments. Outbreaks amongst US college students who were vaccinated in the early 70's has nothing to do with the ongoing issue of low take up of mmr in the UK, much of which certainly CAN be directly traced to the scaremongering of the late 199o's.

Single vaccine rates are at best a small hole in the data, since we know there was never a large take up rate of these.

Every vaccine comes with advice that there is a small risk, and always has done, just like every medicine or treatment available. Every parent should know this. At no time was the official story otherwise.

If you could stick to one main point it would be helpful.

A 2007 measles outbreak in Tokyo for example was blamed on waning vaccine immunity in adults

www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20070608f1.html

www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5738a5.htm (interestingly Japanese students here blamed for import of measles into the US).

The lack of teen/adult booster for measles in the UK does bother me. It is such a highly infectious disease, and so nasty in adults.

Darn it

www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20070608f1.html

www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5738a5.htm

Changey bruffin linked the outbreaks in the States back to Wakefield. I was simply saying it isn't that simple.

There is more than one point to this story.

What outbreaks though? Not ones in vaccinated teenagers in the 80's, I'm quite sure bruffin wasn't proposing a time travelling Wakefield? You are obfuscating the point (of which yes, there are many, however they do need to be at least tangentially connected. At a minimum in the correct temporal order perhaps?)

I don't see how pointing out that outbreaks happen even when they have nothing to do with Wakefield is obfuscating the pint. That IS my point. Even in the midst of an MMR scare my personal decision not to vaccinate had nothing to do with the scare and everything to do with the govt response. And that was pre-autism days. No doubt my single vaccine choice in 2001 has been blamed officially on Wakefield though.

Actually in that same letter I received that I mentioned above the author told me that I was mistaken in thinking that confidence in the MMR was low - and that their own research told them that confidence was as high as it had ever been - that it had dipped a little post the news conference but was no back on track and they had no concerns (I had suggested that re-introducing single vaccines might increase coverage). They can't have it both ways really.

Given that I was accused of being patronising for using the word 'um' yesterday I do hope pointydog is reading the latest.

Its a non point because its unbearably obvious. If your discussing the chemical components of pond algae you don't need to link to sources that "water is wet".

Why are you linking to college outbreaks of over 20 years ago? What has that got to do with the price of fish?

My point is that measles outbreaks occur for reasons other than vaccine refusal. Reasons why vaccine refusal occurs is a whole other issue - and assumptions made for reasons for refusal are often assumed to be simple, when in fact are multiple and complex. Neither of those points seems particularly obvious to many. Although I agree of course it should be blatantly obvious.

Although according to my dept of health letter dated 2001 there was no increase in MMR refusal anyway. :rolls eyes:

Yes, of course they do. Which makes it more important that people take up the vaccine. This does indeed come under the heading of blatantly obvious.

Hmm you would perhaps be surprised then at many of the arguments I have had directed at me over the years then. I'm pleased it's obvious - someone else can correct the next such comment.

I would agree that if we are going down a mass immunisation for measles route (and there are of course many reasons to do that) then high uptake is essential.

Which is why I would prefer to see further studies into waning immunity (feel free to link to any) and into reasons for vaccine refusal. And for further choice in how vaccinations are given (even if some options have to be paid for). I think that might be more effective than advertising.

Ok:
here

here

here

here

also here

and here

some more

The idea that there is a lack of research in this area is laughable.

There's certainly outbreaks of whooping cough in areas of AUstralia where it has become trendy to not vax :(

There are also outbreaks of whooping cough in the US (mainly in adolescents and adults) because the pertussis vaccine has been shown to only be effective for around 5 years.

Also, for those blaming Wakefield for some huge surge in measles cases - the HPA data shows the the number of measles cases each year since 1998 have been LESS than the number of cases in the years before Wakefield.

Good to know it's going on - I think you misunderstood what I said however, given your tone. My invitation to link to studies was genuine, I wasn't saying there haven't been any studies - i haven't searched -and i am certainly pleased it is going on. I wonder whether a later booster will ever be introduced? Years ago a dept of health bod speaking on radio 4 when asked about this did say it might need to happen. if you have any research on reasons for vaccine refusal I'd be interested to see that as well. The other figures I'd like to see is numbers of infections divided by age group pre and post vaccine introduction. I've only ever found rates - and would like to see actual numbers (I assume actual numbers of infected infants has decreased dramatically - but I only ever see rates quoted which of course has risen). If you have access to that i'd appreciate a link. Thank you.

My decision not to vaccinate ds2 and ds3 btw has been supported by their various healthcare professionals, and ds1's regression has been discussed at length with various paediatricians, several (registrar and cosultant) neurologists, and a geneticist (all NHS) so i'd appreciate it if you could stop being quite so rolly eyed.

Usingapseudonym - the Aussie outbreaks have been found to be linked to changes in the strain of pertussis circulating.
www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2010/02/whooping-cough-evolves-to-esca.html

saintlyjimjams How old was your DS when he regressed? That must have been awful.

It's very interesting what you have written.

since there are no roll-eyes in my posts and you can't read tone in a text only medium, I'd appreciate if you'd stop with the attribution assuming errors.

The aussie outbreaks have been linked to evolving strains, yes, but exacerbated by a decline in vaccination up take.

He was about 14 monthsish whosegot but his was a slow regression. In some ways only fully noticeable when you watch videos from pre-regression and you realised that speech sounds had gone (he had a whole range of consonants and early words which all went to be replaced by only vowels - there were odd things as well so for example he stopped saying 'dar' for star and instead started singing twinkle twinkle!). Shortly after the behaviours started to show and by 17 months I was suspecting autism. I couldn't get anyone to believe me though. He was finally diagnosed at three.

He had a whole host of things that happened at around the same time - although the doctors seem to think a herpes infection (it was a serious one) probably played a part - and I agree that is likely. Our family history is one of no autism at all (not the slightest hint) but is chocablock full of immune issues. So an unusual response to a virus wouldn't be all that surprising. Although I suspect it's probably a lot more complicated than that, and of course may not have had an external trigger. He did have some early warning signs, as did ds3, but ds3 is 6 now and definitely not on the spectrum.

Anyway 11 years later, and thanks to someone on Mumsnet, as of last week, he has a voice again (in the form of a little green box). So far he seems to mainly want to talk about food!

Not sure whether I've linked to this paper. It's not particularly relevant to this thread but might be of interest to some on it

pediatricbioscience.com/publications/pdf/Pub7.pdf

Gah iPad didn't tick the box!

pediatricbioscience.com/publications/pdf/Pub7.pdf

saintlyjimjams What's the little green box? Sorry if I'm being ignorant. Do you mean a Herpex infection such as being infected with coldsores? What were the warning signs that he and DS3 both had? (sorry for all the questions!)

No worries with the questions.

The little green box is a (very green) electronic talker machine :) He's just received one, so finally we can get some words again (not from his mouth, but nevertheless - it's fairly life changing positive stuff)

Yes to the cold sore virus, but it infected his eczema and he was covered in blisters - the only clear bit of skin was on his feet. He had secondary bacterial infections as well and had lost most of the skin on his face by the time we saw the dermatologist (emergency referral) - it was initially incorrectly diagnosed as chickenpox. Eczema herpeticum can on rare occasions be fatal so it was (correctly) treated quite aggressively. It was quite unusual as well and he was invited back for medical students to poke

The warning signs were subtle, but both boys were a rubbish at rolling over. DS1 was a little late to reach I think (although within typical range maybe). And DS1's crawling was very odd (but that was at 13 months straight after the illness). DS1 met all social milestones on time. Smiled at the correct time, played peek a boo, lifted arms to be picked up. He did need help learning to drink out of a cup - hand over hand help, as did ds3 I think (can't quite remember). Both ds1 and ds3 had some gut issues as well (both fine now).

saintlyjimjams Oooh that sounds nasty! Have heard of that happening, poor little thing! I heard of it infecting a mans brain and leaving him disabled (mentally not physically), very rare they said.

So does he type the words and the machine says them? Does he chose not to speak or is he unable to? Do you cope ok?

Sorry again for all the questions. I have 2 adult members of my family that I think have ASD/Aspergers or other SN which are undiagnosed so I am always interested in the subject. Also worry about my own dcs but so far they seem NT. I have wondered how I would cope if they were not but I quess I would just get on with it and of course would love them the same.