.. to be really hacked off with my Mum over vaccinations

[MrsTwinks]

Me and DH are TTC. A passing comment from a relative about my mum and doctors got me thinking about my jabs so thought I'd better get my rubella checked.

Just back from the doctor and it turns out all vaccinations on me stopped when I was about 2. Everything. Now IIRC 1988 was pre the MMR scare, but even so I could understand that, except its all of them. They have recommended I have a polio and tetanus now, but I'm also missing BCG etc.

AIBU to be really fucked off at my mum for a)kinda for just doing it to start with but honestly really b) never bloody telling me!!

I work with kids, shes been on at me to TTC for literally years, and not once has she mentioned me not having had my jabs. The tetanus one really fucks me off too because as a teen I cut my leg open really badly on rusty metal, it got infected so bad even the holes from the stitches got all infected and she didn't let/make sure I had a tetanus booster. I suspect also she never told my Dad because he went ape when I nearly didn't have my meningitis c when I was 17. He was a SAHP with me at first as he was a student so I wonder if maybe it was only him who took me in the first place.

I'm still really mad 'cos I ust discovered it ontop of alot of other stuff she did but now its like she coulda been playing russian roulette with not only my health as a child but my kid's if I hadnt thought to check it iykwim.

and breathe

Not being patronising - just correcting the assumptions made on here about our decision making progress.

Also these conversations are a little bit close to the bone for me. Living with a 12 year old who has one spoken word and all that (he used to have more than that, but he lost them). So I prefer to keep these conversations light hearted and bantery.

I'd just been accused of making my decision based on denying science. So was just pointing out that conversations with nhs consultants from various disciplines had played a part. Along with chats to researchers in the field about current understandings. Just correcting assumptions.

As I said - just making the best decisions we can on the information we have. As that changes maybe our decisions will. It is in our interests to stay up to date.

silverfrog I am quite definitely not talking about blaming parents for infecting other children when asked to bring them into surgeries. However, I am talking about parents who choose not to have their children vaccinated against measles. With measles as with chickenpox, there is a period where they are infectious but either completely asymptomatic or just a bit 'off'.

In the case of measles, the consequences could potentially be very serious - think a nursery setting with babies too young for vaccination. The parent of that child may not be aware that their unvaccinated child is harbouring the illness, but the choice not to vaccinate in the first place was theirs - and so is the responsibility for their child passing on the illness to a child whose parents have not had the opportunity to make any choices.

I would not quibble about immunocompromised children (though in such cases I would expect the parents to inform the nursery or school their child will attend of their unvaccinated status) but we all have a responsibility not just to ourselves and our own children but to everyone around us.

FWIW my surgery is very good about dealing with potentially contagious children, but I know that isn't the case everywhere.

Can you correct without the Ums?

It really does come across as either about to bite the carpet or patronising.

Well there's been quite a lot of smugness and wink wink about how thick these science deniers all are math. Would you prefer I got angry? I used to. I used to get very angry that no-one understood the day to day reality of our life and how much we'd lost, and how much ds1 had lost. And very angry that people didn't understand that we were simply trying to avoid it happening again. And angry that I was the one up late at night ploughing through peer reviewed research only to be called stupid. Angry that I was the one sitting in the conference hall when the researcher preventing the model said 'usually this trigger would be a virus but occasionally could be something like the dreaded vaccinations' - only to be ridiculed on here. And so on.

Ten years on I no longer get angry. I have a delightful severely autistic son who has made my life a million times better. I have two other sons who have as much chance as any other children of growing up to live independent lives. I do get slightly bored of the same old same old ridiculous accusations (to the point that I don't usually bother posting).

If saying um is distressing to you of course I will stop. Maybe in return people could do me the courtesy of recognising that my decision wasn't made on the basis of reading one issue of lentil weavers weekly. Rather that it's a decision made as a result of a lot of reading and talking and isn't actually set in stone.

My um response was to this

My 'um' response was to this:

'There are many on here that claim to be experts who then link, as proof of their position, conspiracy theory blogs and crusading uninformed untrained ill educated lone wolf types.'

Which is perhaps slightly more patronising than 'um'.

:goes back to pub med:

Leonie - fine, I understand that. Your choice - but if it were your child who got measles (and recovered well) and who after thorough investigation into disease vecotrs was found to have infected (while asymptomatic) a young baby who then died of the complications, would you feel bad? Would you feel responsible? Would you accept the consequences of your choices?

If yes - I have no problem with that at all.

Why don't you ask that question on the main board but replace the word measles with chickenpox pointy?

Wrt measles infection the main period of infection is during the prodromal stage. (and 24 hours before). We avoid babies when any of the chikdren have cold symptoms.

Tbh though the reason measles vaccination isn't given earlier than 12 months is because the level of circulating maternal antibodies is too high. So it should be less of an issue than for some other infections. Although as I said above it is possible to take some sensible extra precautions.

And y y of course there are exceptions. But the same applies to chickenpox really. It usually isn't dangerous to babies because they usually have passive immunity, but can be, especially in a newborn. There's a vaccination available etc etc.

And herpes of course (minus the vaccination). I would never handle a baby whilst I had a cold sore. Not everyone worries about that.

Actually thinking about it ds2 was exposed to whooping cough as a 6 week old. I was a bit concerned as they said that passive immunity is limited for whooping cough. But he didn't get it then (although he may well have a few years later).

Pointy, what about the reasons behind why that child is unvaccinated? What if they have had severe reactions to previous vaccines? What if their siblings have had severe reactions? What if they have a family history of severe reactions? Do those reasons exonerate an unvaccinated child for possibly infecting another? Who becomes the judge for what is a 'valid' reason to not vaccinate?

What about a child who is too young to be vaccinated infecting another? Both my boys had rubella when they were under a year. How would it have been my or their fault if they had infected someone else? What about vaccinated children who aren't immune? They are just as able to pass on disease too. Are they expected to take responsibility too?

Actually whooping cough interest me - when ds2 had the possible whooping cough there were a few reports in the new scientist etc about a new strain that had evolved and wasn't protected against by vaccination. The symptoms were slightly different than regular whooping cough (less severe) - this must have been about 2004. Then the news on that went dead, but there have been similar stories appearing more recently (although not uk based this time) www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2010/02/whooping-cough-evolves-to-esca.html as someone who was originally an evolutionary biologist I do worry a little about selection pressures. Actually I don't worry about it but I find it theoretically interesting (although it's so political it's hard to find sensible information on this - please send my way if you find any - will make a change from reading about antibiotic resistance - another area I find interesting as it was all so avoidable. And antibiotics IMO were the most amazing discovery of recent years. Messed up in one or two generations).

www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2164/11/627. Interesting.

Initially non-vaccinators were blamed for the outbreaks. Until they realised they were occurring in vaccinated individuals. Bit worrying that it's more virulent.

Oh this is an interesting paper

rsif.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/4/12/143.full

Haven't read the whole thread as I'm sure it has followed all the other vaccination discussions, etc, but am I the only one that thinks the OP is a little contrived. It seems a bit 'written', a means into a discussion. It just seemed a little rehearsed and made up to me. Just saying...