To be so scared about making the wrong decision about having children...

[scaredycatandconfused]

...that I can't make any decision at all. (Name changed, since I'm baring my soul here.)

DH and I are mid/late 30s, and have been together since our early 20s. Through our 20s, neither of us wanted to start a family. I was very unsure about whether I ever wanted to have kids, DH says he always imagined himself with a family but the immediate prospect didn't appeal.

Over the last few years, I've started thinking that having a family might be really nice. I see how happy it makes other people, and I think I'd like to make a little family unit with DH and some children of our own. I have always felt very grounded by being part of my nuclear family (parents and DB) - and I'm sadly aware it's going to shrink and disappear as I get older - my parents are in their 70s, and my brother has his own family (I adore my DNiece and DNephew, and feel very lucky to be a part of their lives - but my brother's family is a little unit of their own now).

BUT, it's a wistful kind of feeling, not the kind of strong, definite desire that other people seem to have. I've never been really sure that it's what I want - I'm a bit of a funny bugger, and can't assume that what other people like will also make me happy. DH's feelings haven't really changed.

So, we've been umm-ing and ah-ing for years, putting off the decision, never deciding against it, but never going ahead. But I'm very aware that the decision is time-limited, and recently started putting on the pressure - not pressure over whether it's a yes or no, but pressure that we have to decide one way or another NOW. I've been saying that I'm pretty sure I would like to have children (honestly without pressuring him!), and DH finally said that we should go ahead then. But he had such an 'I really hate this idea' look! He still doesn't like the idea of never having a family, but finds the thought of the sleepless nights, 24/7 child-care, lack of personal time etc really unappealing - and that would be the immediate reality of starting a family. I'm not (very) worried about him being unsupportive or holding this against me when things are difficult, but it does make me feel even more unsure of myself - the whole responsibility for the decision is lying with me!

Ironically, now that we've made the decision to go ahead, I'm big-time doubting myself again. What if I hate having kids? Will I spend the next 20 years - most of the remainder of my active life - regretting it, and feeling trapped? Will DH hate it, and will that ruin our marriage? Will I end up with a host of permanent health problems from the pregnancy/child-birth (I know the health one is a bit paranoid - but it does happen!). Do I really want the next 20 years to be dedicated to logistics and pickups, cooking and domesticity, worrying about finding the right schools - or will I just get bored ?

BUT, if we don't have children, are we missing out on one of life's most important experiences - which would make us really happy, and give us a focus and connection to the world for the rest of our lives? I'm aware that I lack imagination sometimes, and I often don't recognise things that would make my life better - will all this worry seem ludicrous once we've actually got a real child?

I know that this is obviously a decision for me to make myself, not a load of strangers on the internet :) But I'm hoping for some words of wisdom, or some insight you guys might have: either how your own expectations before having children compared to reality, or else whether you think my ambiguous feelings are normal / an indication that I shouldn't have children. Frankly, I'm despairing - and any advice would be welcome!

Thanks for reading - sorry it's such a long post!

I've seen a lot of awful comments on here about women who don't have children. I remember the one about how women without their own children shouldn't become teachers, and that they couldn't possibly be any good at their jobs.

And one of the posters on that thread was a very passionate and dedicated teacher, who as it happens did not have children due to having struggled for many years with fertility problems and miscarriages/stillbirths, and was at that time grieving the loss of her latest pregnancy. That thread was probably the most vile and unpleasant thing I've seen on MN.

But while that was the worst, it's only one of many examples of people making horrible offensive comments about childless/childfree women. I just don't understand what people are thinking sometimes, or why it's tolerated here.

I've already apologised for the poor phrasing of my post, but will do so again. The OP seemed to me to be canvassing opinion from mums: "I'm hoping for some words of wisdom, or some insight you guys might have: how your own expectations before having children compared to reality". I didn't mean to imply that you couldn't post on Mumsnet if you weren't a parent - I meant I wondered why she was posting on this thread (badly worded, should have previewed before posting). And for the record I completely accept you can have a fulfilled and meaningful life without children - lots of people do it is a totally valid life choice. But the OP asked. "If we don't have children, are we missing out on one of life's most important experiences"? I would say, as someone who used to feel exactly like the OP, yes you are. But it goes without saying that what you never have you don't miss - I'm sure I would have been perfectly happy without them, but my God I'm glad I did.

I am on mumsnet for the same reason I have friends with children, and I work with children- I find children (and people) interesting.

And mumsnet is the bloody funniest site on the interweb.

I often wonder, how can you miss something if you have never experienced it? It just means you experience something else. Its just what you choose to do instead that matters really. For example, you could go and do something amazingly worthwhile and forfilling that has a massive impact on other people. I dunno. From what I have seen and read elsewhere as well as here, I think its very difficult to think about the alternatives that your life could offer you instead had you made different decisions. I think you have to think about what you would do if you don't have kids, and whether you think that would be a better alternative to you in a way... at least thats how I'm seeing it presently.

I agree with quietlyafraid. It's not quite the same as regretting having children, but I've heard lots of people (especially women) express regret about the things they've been unable to do or would have done with their lives otherwise, whether it's education or career or adventure or whatever.

Of course the fact is that no one can do absolutely everything in a single lifetime, so whatever you do there must always be a tendency to look back and wonder what would have happened if you'd done differently. I guess the key is being content with the choices you made, whatever they may be, and grateful for what you have.

"I often wonder, how can you miss something if you have never experienced it?" I agree, but I'd hesitate to argue that on a thread dominated by women desperate to conceive. The fact is noone so far on here has come forward and said they regret having their kids.

I doubt anyone would though Lillian. As pointed out before its taboo. And to admit as such brings out deep feelings associated with feminity and worth as a woman and mother. Very complex subject... and one that I kinda understand with the dilema I have.

I think that it is very possible to miss having children if it is something you want or have wanted for a while. I (rather selfishly) wanted to experience the look of joy on my child's face when she was reunited with me as I had seen this with friends' children and their parents. I would have missed that enormously if I hadn't had DD. Now that I have DD I am not sure whether we would want any further DC and I don't miss the children I don't yet have as they don't have personalities in the way that DD does. So I think that you can know that you are missing out in some ways, and equally not miss elements of it in other ways.

Sorry, a bit off topic, but is the 'Happily Childfree' website welcoming to people who wanted to have children but were unable to? I have a friend in this position and she's now taking the first steps on creating herself a fantastically rich and rewarding life for herself without children.

She's been haunting infertility forums until now, but is obviously finding it all a bit doom and gloom, so I mentioned there were probably childfree forums around, but she said she thought they would be a bit militantly pro not-wanting-children-to-start-with for her?

True. In fact, having thought about it, I'd say that if you don't want kids in the first place then you almost certainly won't miss them. But not being able to have them is an entirely different kettle of fish. The problem for us women is that unlike men we don't have the luxury of dithering for years and years over the decision. The danger for the OP is that she starts trying too late - which could give cause for regret, rather than making an outright decision not to try.

Thread has moved on - my True was in response to quietlyafraid.

Llanarth I have seen child free sites which include areas for women who are infertile and what to see it as a positive thing. I couldn't tell you where off top of head (at work) but they DO exist.

I think the big question OP should ask is 'can i imagine myself without children in 20 years time?' Or if you talk about grandkids. If the answer is no, theres a big hint.

I think overall its the attitude to take to things rather than the decision you make...

Llanarth, I haven't been on Happily Childfree for a while so I can't say for sure. Most childfree sites are very positive places and welcome 'fence sitters' like the OP - people who are as yet undecided. Unfortunately I have come across some sites who take quite a disgusting attitude to parents and children - referring to parents as 'breeders' and children as 'brats' or 'rugrats'. For the record, I don't think there's anything wrong at all with not liking children, but I find their venomous attitude really vile. I would advise your friend to be aware of this so that she doesn't get a shock.

quietlyafraid - re imagining yourself without kids in 20 years time - yep dead right this question was a real clincher for me.

In response to LillianGish, fair point; I am not directly answering the OPs question so apologies for that. I just thought that being a content, childfree person was a useful perspective to offer to someone who was waivering. FYI I am 41 and still 100% sure of my decision; I am as sure as anyone can be that I will never change my mind now and I have known this since about age 6! Mumsnet is for anyone who likes a good debate surely..

Afraid I don't have time to read all the replies.

I have to disagree with previous posters who say 'imagine yourself in 20 years time' etc. What about in 2 yrs, 5 yrs, 10 yrs time? parenting is the biggest responsibility of your life. It takes over everything, no doubt about it. If the desire isn't strong, maybe its just not for you? Maybe having loving nieces and nephews is enough?

Personally, I don't think any of the reasons you stated in your OP are strong enough reasons to go ahead.

In 20 years time I definitely see myself having several dogs :), find it difficult to imagine children though. It's not an unpleasant thought, just...alien. I don't really have much experience of children, or of 'normal' happy family life, it's not something I can picture very well.

Surely though in 20 years time your children would be grown up and gone and your life would be fairly back to normal anyway?

If I found out I couldn't have children...well, you don't know how you'll feel until it happens, but I think my main emotion would be relief, not least that it meant the decision was taken out of my hands. That could just mean I lack confidence with decision-making though...

Rhubardgarden.
I think its easy to think in that way than beat yourself up asking how you will cope with a newborn or the idea of having children in 12 months time. It makes it too close and scary to get into your head.

For the record I do think there is a world of difference between making an active choice and having infertility imposed on you. Feelings of missing out become a lot more complex as they add the "its not fair", "why me" and "I'm a failure" element to it.

I think having children is very much connected to a lot of women's idea of self worth, which is why when you can't have kids it hurts so much more. Especially when you have placed so much emotional energy into chasing a dream.

I don't think that means you are definitely condemned to a life of always regretting or 'missing out' though. I definitely think a grieving process is necessary though.

If you make a free choice your idea of self worth is going to be somewhat different. You have to have a level of confidence and self belief in yourself to do that. Its the same with anything where you break 'social norms'.

'If I found out I couldn't have children...well, you don't know how you'll feel until it happens, but I think my main emotion would be relief, not least that it meant the decision was taken out of my hands. That could just mean I lack confidence with decision-making though'

That's exactly how I feel Ephiny. And yes I am very bad with decision making for various reasons. That feeling of relief speaks volumes to me though and reassures me that deep down, a baby is not the right thing for me. By contrast, I am giddy with excitement at the thought of being an aunt one day and I would feel really very sad if that didn't happen (not my decision obviously!). That's a useful contrast for my feelings about parenthood because I know what it's like to really look forward to something but parenthood is not it for me.

Have only read the OP - its normal and natural to be worried/over-awed/scared shitless at the prospect of a life changing event - and that is precisely what having children is. Some people have it before they decide to conceive, some before they give birth, some after they give birth - but most people feel the fear at some point. I really wouldnt overthink it and let nature do the deciding for you - it sounds like you'd be happy whichever way things go and I suspect your DH may be too. FWIW, DH needed some time to get his head around the idea of having kids - and when we had DS1 who he adored had to have time to get his head round having a second child and worrying if he'd ever love them as much as DS1 - now he says having DS1 and DS2 is the best thing he's ever done (and he's totally and utterly in love with both of them).

Aha! Got the link I was looking for:

www.childfree.net/potpourri_whybaby.html

Have a go. It evaluates whats behind your thinking about why you are considering having a baby. Its great food for thought.

quietly yes good point re shaking up some brain cells

itsalladirtylie (what is, by the way? Having children?!) yes you are right, not everyone is suited to family life. Sometimes the sheer volume makes me want to scream/cry. I try not to say 'shhh' 26,000 times a day but it's hard.

"Mumsnet is for anyone who likes a good debate" - I couldn't agree more Earthdog. Interesting that you knew from the age of six that you didn't want kids. I had a friend who even went so far as trying to get herself sterilised in her mid-twenties, but to no avail. She couldn't persuade the doctors that she really had made up her mind. So much better to make a positive decision though and live life accordingly than to miss the boat through indecision and spend the rest of your life wondering.

Funnily enough, Im always thought I would have kids- but my family have a rather doom and gloom attitude to marriage and children. My grandmother always used to say 'You have your fun- and then you get married'.

In my 30s I became aware that I didn't HAVE to have them. Then when my parents died, I had a mad hormonal panic and tried desperately to get pregnant. I didn't- THANK G-D as I was going out with a horrendous abuser and the idea of having to hand children over to him every weekend still makes my blood run cold.
Now (touch wood ) it's getting too late and I have a nasty auto immune condition which would make me even more of a lousy parent. As I get older, I get LESS regretful.
There's an Alan Bennett line about how every life has some regrets, but every life also has compensations.