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GetOrf · 07/11/2011 19:43
Because if she has been I would like to know why.
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 21:12
@SecretNutellaFix
24 hours for first offence, 3 days for second and a week for a third with anything subsequent being a permanent exclusion.
This is a good idea too but I do promise in this case we didn't just pull the trigger. (I'd like a sin bin)
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 21:14
@YankNCock
Add my name to the petition, her advice has helped me, and someone does need to show the world that side of dog ownership that says they are not accessories to be discarded at will! There are so many unwanted dogs in the world, we really need someone who will tell people they are being idiots for backyard breeding or taking on dogs with no idea what they are doing. If those sort of people don't get a warm reception, perhaps they should think about WHY rather than bitching about unfriendliness.
No, sorry, here's where we differ. There's no harm in giving a warm reception and some heartfelt advice. Otherwise it's just lecturing. One individual is not responsible for all the unwanted dogs in the world. They are usually responsible for just one, and quite anxious about it.
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 21:15
@LoopyLoopsRootyFroots
Please reinstate her though.
And get rid of the dogshouse. Back to 'pets' maybe?
There's no actual, sensible reason why people can't be civilised in the Doghouse, is there? I don't get it.
Just popping off to put my boys to bed and put supper on for my girls but I shall return...
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 21:17
@herbietea
As we always say, send em over - we will look into anything you do.
OliviaMumsnet · 07/11/2011 21:26
what happened to all the kaftans?!
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 21:27
I is ruthless, me.
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 21:29
@MmeLindor
This is what I found. Could we have this as a warning sign when a poster is warned?
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.ch/imgres?q=sin+bin+smiley&hl=de&nord=1&biw=1600&bih=785&tbm=isch&tbnid=_bNmXnUek1x8rM:&imgrefurl=www.team-andro.com/phpBB3/offizieller-babbel-spam-und-smiley-thread-t169308-112350.html&docid=gj_q2e5kFP2TfM&itg=1&imgurl=magdeblog.de/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/penisbild.gif&w=500&h=500&ei=Wky4TqSkL5HV4QSh0sXZAw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=850&vpy=130&dur=61&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=132&ty=114&sig=103894265151616174179&page=1&tbnh=126&tbnw=142&start=0&ndsp=34&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Sin Bin
How is that a sin bin smiley?
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 21:41
@ChippingInNeedsSleep
If one person comes on saying x and DBF someone replies it's a post. If 10 people start separate threads saying the same thing and DBF you reply to each of them it's lecturing??
No it's how you go about answering them - if you helpful and considerate then it doesn't matter how many times you answer. If you are bossy and won't truck any alternative way of doing things, then it's lecturing.
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 22:17
@ItsonlymeMrsDB
But isn't that open to personal interpretation ?
One person's helpful and considerate is anothers bossy ? Depending on what is said, and how ?
Well yes, the "how" is the thing, isn't it?
OliviaMumsnet · 07/11/2011 22:21
@Crazybit
Hi there - when was this and to whom? thanks
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 22:23
@Catinthehat3
Classy
Really classy.
I'll let that personal attack go, Catinthehat3
The truth is we don't usually like to go about posting why we've banned folks on board for this very reason. The last thing we want to do is slag someone off who doesn't have an opportunity to defend themselves. But, there was no way this was going to left off-board to our discretion, as we've seen DBF has lots of mates on MN, who want to know why we've done what we've done.
Plus the Doghouse has been boiling away for a bit - our inbox is chocca with posters who've had a rough time in there - so we felt that we needed that the issues needed to be addressed on board.
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 22:29
@chickchickchicken
this is why. at best you were misleading, at worst you were factually incorrect when you stated that there was a 'poor woman a while back who got into trouble for not being able to cope with her dog after her dh died'
i was on that thread and your statement does not reflect what actually happened. no-one knew that poster had lost her dh as she didnt say in her OP. yet you make it sound as if people knew but still had a go. your statement also implies that she was attacked for not coping with the dog. that is not true. people disagreed with her method of selling the dog to someone she didnt know and NOT about not being able to cope with dog
really, i cannot have respect for you quoting from a thread in such an inaccurate way. its not just a difference of opinion - mine and yours - but your statement is not factually correct
it does leave a bad taste in my mouth as it seems you have a personal dislike of dbf. there were lots of posters with strong opinions on that thread.
i am not sure i even want to stay on this site and i never thought i would say that. the inconsistencies are becoming unpalatable. it is sickening to see posts about rape and derogatory language about special needs stand and then you get all high and mighty about the doghouse
But that's the point, you don't know ever what someone's circumstances are, so what's the harm in being gentle and kind or at least in being neutral? That thread imho was a very salient example of what happens if the prevailing mood is one of judgement and self-righteousness. We never, any of us, know the circumstances of who we are talking to. It's absolutely fine to give forthright, straight advice but any poster could have a whole host of vulnerabilities so why not assume the best of them, and not the worst? Why not tell it straight, but not unkindly?
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 22:32
@StrandedBear
While we are here can we have a sticky out tongue smiley?
This is why I rarely venture out these days - always another smiley request .
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 22:35
But I have seen worse in some AIBU threads, you can't ask people to have an opinion and offer help and advice then say "oh but only in the way we want you to". For fear of upsetting people who intentionally set out to cause upset.
You can if they've been repeatedly banned/warned for aggressive posting though, no?
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 22:42
@StewieGriffinsMom
Think that might have to be quote of the week.
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 22:47
'but thats the point, you dont ever know what someone's circumstances are, so whats the harm in being gentle ......
will that be your approach across all the boards??
Yes if a poster or group of posters "take control" of a board and start laying down the law.
I don't want for one minute to belittle the fact that these posters on the Doghouse genuinely feel passionately about the subject and can often go out of their way to be helpful, but we've had too many reports of the Doghouse being scary and unwelcoming to let things go on like this.
I know AIBU can be similarly feisty but first, it's not obviously dominated by one or a few posters, secondly it's not a specific topic-related subject that you have to post in, and thirdly we are working on it!
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 22:51
@SacreLao
That's a hell of a lot of bans to issue!
And that would help how, exactly? This is not school you know, with us as teachers and you as rebellious kids. We are trying our best to moderate in a way that adheres to our philosophy - to let the conversation flow and to make parents' lives easier. The Doghouse as it stands doesn't really result in either of those aims. You either buy into that philosophy or you don't.
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 22:56
@Honeydragon
I agree but DBF was banned a couple of weeks ago, after warnings, and allowed back on a promise that she'd tone it down. So how many last chances do we give. We have to moderate this "public forum" and that entails dealing with the fall out from those stung by the prevailing aggressiveness in the Doghouse. And it's no fun for my team who do it, let me tell you.
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 23:00
@AnyFucker
this thread is superfluous now
justine maybe you should delete this one now and come back to us when you have done as you said you will do which is 1) consider reinstating DBF due to popular demand 2) further investigated TLES also due to popular demand
anything more on this thread is not useful
Hi Anyfucker, one thing we're not going to do is to delete this thread. I guarantee that would result in about 200 others saying WTF happened. And since when do we delete threads that lack utility? Actually I think this thread is one of the most useful I've participated in because there are some very strong feelings and opinions about the nature of Mumsnet and how it should be moderated being discussed here. In a way I think it's been quite cathartic.
OliviaMumsnet · 07/11/2011 23:01
@Trills
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 23:09
@LindsayWagner
I actually agree with that LW. I think you can and should be able to say 'you're talking shite and I'm telling you so' but you shouldn't say "'you're talking shite, you evil/nasty/uncaring/thoughtless/stupid (delete as appropriate) person you, and I'm telling you so'
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 23:11
@dreamingbohemian
I suggested earlier a temporary ban from the Doghouse rather than a permanent MN ban.
Is this something MN would consider?
We will consider it yes, dreamingbohemian. Think I need to talk it through with the site duty team, though. After all, they have to pick up the pieces of the fallout and it's not that this hasn't been tried/floated before. We'll get back to you soonest though.
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 23:26
@catsrus
As for DBF - i didn't see the thread in question, but I have seen many of her posts, both in the doghouse and more generally in other threads and I am really shocked that she has been banned - I have seen her 'robust' postings yes - but they are honest and straightforward and I have seen her be kind and helpful and funny.. and I think she is an asset to MN not a liability.
The moderation policy you have implemented suffers from the fact that you only see the negative posts that get reported, I think you really do need to listen to people on this one and revoke the ban. it's not DBFs "friends" posting here - but people who spend too much time on here for their own good and perhaps have a wider perspective than the one MNHQ is able to get
Thanks for the post. We can see there are many people who value DBF's posts, but there are also many who think her posts are unhelpful.
On the subject of the feminist boards, we know there is some disgruntlement expressed here and elsewhere. I know this is not going to sit well with a lot of posters but the intolerance we've commented on in the Doghouse is not dissimilar to that on the feminism boards IMHO. Both boards have succumbed to a bit of: "If you don't agree with the party line then you are unworthy/ not wanted here". In the case of the feminism boards this dogma has attracted a bunch of unpleasant types who come along merely to post contrary opinions.
But the bottom line is we are a site that allows contrary opinion. That's in our DNA and we don't believe in shutting it down. Don't get me wrong we love having a board to discuss feminism/womens' rights and fully support it's existence but it is a board to discuss feminism - you don't have to be a feminist to be on it - and we can't just ban anyone who pops up with a contrary view. (Although we have banned a few folks who were solely and very obviously out to inflame)
JustineMumsnet · 07/11/2011 23:28
@BeerTricksPotter
Consistency is the key. Otherwise MN loses credibility.
Credibility? We have credibility?
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