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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be completely shocked and disgusted at the leaflet I've just been given by my mw???

999 replies

mummylovesnancy · 04/11/2011 08:32

This leaflet, titled 'Raised BMI in Pregnancy' was passed on to me by my midwife at my booking in appointment yesterday. Along with the words 'You can't have a home birth, you probably won't deliver naturally and you'll be given consultant led care.'
I'm 28, I have 2 PERFECTLY healthy children who both have perfect height to weight ratios, eat well, are active and are generally normal children. I weigh 13st and I'm 5'2 which puts me in the 'obese' catagory according to the good ol' BMI index of wonder. I have been roughly this weight and exactly this height for all of my adult life. I am overweight, I accept that, but what I don't accept is being told to read this sodding leaflet which tells me, among various other little pearlers, that:
*I will have raised blood pressure. (Not 'I may', 'I WILL')
*I will be prone to urinary tract infections. (never had one in my life!)
*'Bigger Ladies' (exact wordage) get more blood clots. (Dumb Fuck)
*Examinations will be difficult. (Why? Because you have to part all my layers of fat to get to my vag?! How fucking degrading)
*I will have restricted mobilisation. (Will I? Because I don't now, will it automatically come with being fat and preggers?)
*Putting in a drip will be difficult. (yeah because my hands are so freaking chubby.)
*Breastfeeding will be challenging (I've managed it with two babies, now because you've changed your guidelines I think I might struggle.)
And my favourite one yet:
*The risk of stillbirth or your baby dying in the first 28 days is increased in 'larger ladies' (Thanks for that one, nhs, I just had a misscarriage 8 weeks ago. Was it because I'm fat?)

It also mentions on about 7 occasions that I may want an epidural. Is that to keep me quiet?! It also offers to refer me to a dietician and a counsellor.

I have been overweight (or a larger or bigger lady, as the nhs prefers) and given birth naturally twice with absolutely no complications and one of them was a home birth. I can't believe I have to read all this shit. The idiot who wrote this doesn't even know how to place an apostrophe or comma ffs!

Does anyone agree with me that this is a disgusting, degrading, scare mongering piece of shit or am I being an unreasonable pregnant wreck??

OP posts:
thunderboltsandlightning · 06/11/2011 11:38

I don't TQOD. Is it really impossible to hear me? I've said you need to focus on healthy eating and exercise.

soupyloopy · 06/11/2011 11:39

You call the tiramisugate a dieters mentality, I call it making a reasoned healthy choice as do many others on here. I call that 'healthy normal-eaters' mentality.

Nobody, but nobody can eat with abandon and not put on weight unless they are Michael Phelps or some other serious-calorie burning athlete.

It's just not like that for the average Joe on the street.

soupyloopy · 06/11/2011 11:41

You are also very very rude thunder

Very.

Your veiled, ignorant sarcasm is actually quite amusing.

samstown · 06/11/2011 11:42

Ok I am leaving this thread now.

Thunder, I think that the fact that no one on this thread is 'reading your posts properly' is actually just a reflection of your utter inability to express your opinions in an an articulate way - in other words your are talking total bollocks!

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/11/2011 11:42

I've read everybody else's posts quietlyafraid. I've just disagreed with quite a lot of them.

Your manners aren't terribly good if you get so angry with someone with a different point of view you have to act like that. You're never going to agree with me, so does that mean I should facepalm you? I won't because I think that's rude.

Anyway I suggest that you read that report of the Minnesota Starvation experiment, because it gives a good explanation of why weight loss dieting doesn't work.

quietlyafraid · 06/11/2011 11:45

Anyway I suggest that you read that report of the Minnesota Starvation experiment, because it gives a good explanation of why weight loss dieting doesn't work.

Are you completely patronising? Have you actually read the post on the previous page I put? No not at all. That completely obvious.

Glad this thread is coming to an end.

TheQueenOfDeDead · 06/11/2011 11:46

So how do you recognise whether you are eating healthily an exercising enough?

Lookattheears · 06/11/2011 11:47

Thunder, I have never, in my whole life, dieted. I have also never, apart form pregnancy, been heavier than 10 stone, ever.

Why do you think that is? You tell me, why?

soupyloopy · 06/11/2011 11:50

Thunder what is it that you do?

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/11/2011 11:50

"You have a very 'all or nothing' attitude to food. It is possible to enjoy food (including treats) but to keep an eye on your health as well without going crazy mad dieting or crazy mad binge eating."

You're completely missing my point. Every single time.

You said you were making food choices because of putting on weight, not for health reasons. And no putting on a couple of pounds even quite a few pounds isn't unhealthy unless you're on the high end of obese or morbidly obese.

What it will mean though is that instead of fitting into a size 10 it's a 12 or 14 instead.

I have said repeatedly that people should eat healthily and take exercise and stop focusing on weight. As soon as weight comes into it, you go into denial mode and start restricting food and calories and that leads to all sorts of problems. A Tiramisu isn't actually an unheathly thing to eat if your diet is overall healthy and balanced. But if you're watching your weight it's a problem.

CustardCake · 06/11/2011 11:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

soupyloopy · 06/11/2011 11:56

Weight and health are somewhat interchangeable thunder

Like it or not.

If you're diet is overall healthy and balanced, of course tiramisu isn't a bad thing to eat.

But that's not what you've repeatedly said.

Maybe that week the person re the tiramisu didn't have a great diet, so she refused the tiramisu.

You contradict yourself constantly

Esta3GG · 06/11/2011 11:56

Thunders I honestly think you could spend a lifetime arguing with yourself.
Do you bother to read anything that other people post? You ignore any salient points and just keep banging the same monotonous drum.

Your view of the world is very fucked up I think. Utterly devoid of any nuance or subtlety. A stange polarised world where you feel free to brand people as "food haters", "fat haters", "dieters" because they don't concur with your drippy POV that "nature loves us". Hmm

We are all individuals. There is no one-size fits-all slution to any of this - so to dismiss the very real obesity epidemic this country is dealing with by simply suggesting people listen to their bodies is both inane and a bit insane.

You have single handedly derailed what started out as a very interesting thread with your codswallop. Angry

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/11/2011 12:01

Actually this thread was taken up quite a lot by anti-fattists abusing the OP.

I think it's a lot better to hold those sort of people to account and challenge their thinking, because it's that sort of thinking that has brought us to this incredibly dysfunctional relationship our society now has with our bodies and food.

Healthy eating and exercise is the issue, weight is a side issue except in extreme cases. Focus on weight leads to a whole lot of unintended and damaging outcomes.

soupyloopy · 06/11/2011 12:03

Not really.
There was almost no abuse of the OP at all.

Thunder, are you the OP.

What is is you do?

You have repeatedly asked people whether they diet and what they do.
Perhaps you would like to tell us?

And if not, why not?

CustardCake · 06/11/2011 12:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Esta3GG · 06/11/2011 12:09

Actually this thread was taken up quite a lot by anti-fattists

What? What?!!
Here we go again yet another bit of branding - anti-fattists - what the fuck is an anti-fattist?!!
What a very strange world you live in.

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/11/2011 12:12

"If you're diet is overall healthy and balanced, of course tiramisu isn't a bad thing to eat.

But that's not what you've repeatedly said."

That's exactly what I've said Soupy. Dear god. Eat healthily but don't deny yourself.

"Maybe that week the person re the tiramisu didn't have a great diet, so she refused the tiramisu."

Custard says she has a very good diet. She just is worried about putting on weight.

I asked you if you were a scientist because you were calling me a pseudo-scientist (actually I have never said I'm a scientist, I'm a person with opinions on the internet). I asked chic what she did because she was talking about her professional opinion, an appeal to authority. Given that she actually is working on getting women who are pregnant to lose weight during their pregnancy, that's probably an interest worth hearing about when she's voicing her opinion.

You've felt free to ask me personal questions about my size, so I don't know why you're offended by mine. I've had half this thread people accusing me of being obese and in denial.

Esta3GG · 06/11/2011 12:14

What is an anti-fattist?

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/11/2011 12:14

Fitness is more important than weight:

"Groundbreaking work on fitness and weight has been done by [epidemiologist Steven] Blair and colleagues at the Cooper Institute. They have shown that the advantages of being fit are striking and that people can be fit even if they are fat ? and thus have lowered risk of disease. A remarkable finding is that heavy people who are fit have lower risk than thin people who are unfit."
-Dr. Kelly Brownell, Director of the Yale Center for Eating and Weight Disorders, 2003

"Consistently, physical inactivity was a better predictor of all-cause mortality than being overweight or obese."
-Annals of Epidemiology, 2002

"There was a steep inverse gradient between fitness and mortality in this cohort of men with documented diabetes, and this association was independent of BMI ? Obese men with fitness levels greater than the lowest quartile were at no increased risk for mortality when compared with men in the reference group."
-Diabetes Care, 2004

"[A] fit man carrying 50 pounds of body fat had a death rate less than one-half that of an unfit man with only 25 pounds of body fat."
-Harvard Health Policy Review, 2003

"We've studied this from many perspectives in women and in men and we get the same answer: It's not the obesity?it's the fitness."
-Steven Blair, P.E.D., Cooper Institute for Aerobics Research, 2004

"In Greek schoolchildren, primary CHD [coronary heart disease] risk factors are mainly associated with physical activity levels, independently of fitness, fatness, and/or fat intake? It is noteworthy that the present data contradict recent reports citing obesity as the single most important contributor in the pathogenesis of CHD during childhood ? Confirming a previous report in Greek children, we found that the CHD risk factors studied were not substantially affected by qualitative aspects of diet."
-Archives of Disease in Childhood, 2004

"Active obese individuals actually have lower morbidity and mortality than normal weight individuals who are sedentary ? the health risks of obesity are largely controlled if a person is physically active and physically fit."
-The President's Council on Physical Fitness and Sports, 2000

"Compared with normal weight, overweight and obesity did not significantly increase all-cause mortality risk. Compared with low CRF [cardiorespiratory fitness], moderate and high CRF were associated significantly with lower mortality risk."
-Obesity Research, 2002

"Obese individuals with at least moderate CRF [cardiorespiratory fitness] have lower rates of cardiovascular disease (CVD) or all-cause mortality than their normal-weight but unfit peers. In fact, death rates in the former group are about one half those of the latter."
-Editorial, JAMA, 2004

"Unfit, lean men had twice the risk of all-cause mortality as did fit, lean men and also had higher risk of all-cause mortality when compared with fit, obese men. The all-cause mortality rate of fit, obese men was not significantly different from that of fit, lean men ? In summary, we found that obesity did not appear to increase mortality risk in fit men. For long-term health benefits we should focus on improving fitness by increasing physical activity rather than relying only on diet for weight control."
-American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 1999

"The report from the Aerobics Center Longitudinal Study presents convincing evidence that fitness is a more potent risk factor for mortality than is fatness ? an effect of fitness that was statistically independent of the level of fatness was confirmed. The effect of fatness independent of fitness was less clear."
-American Journal of Epidemiology, 2002

"If the height/weight charts say you are 5 pounds too heavy, or even 50 pounds or more too heavy, it is of little or no consequence healthwise-as long as you are physically fit. On the other hand, if you are a couch potato, being thin provides absolutely no assurance of good health, and does nothing to increase your chances of living a long life."
-Steven Blair, P.E.D., Cooper Institute for Aerobics Research, 1997

"This prospective follow-up study among middle-aged and elderly men and women indicates that obesity (as assessed by increased BMI) is not related to an increased risk of all-cause and CVD mortality, but low-level LTPA [leisure time physical activity] and a low level of perceived physical fitness and functional capability are ? In conclusion, in contrast with our initial hypothesis, obesity was not found to be an independent predictor of mortality among middle-aged and elderly men and women. However, low-level LTPA seemed to predict and a low level of perceived physical fitness and functional capability predicted an increased risk of all-cause and CVD mortality among both men and women."
-International Journal of Obesity Related Metabolic Disorders, 2000

"An interesting finding of this study is that overweight, but fit men were at low risk of all-cause mortality."
-International Journal of Obesity Related Metabolic Disorders, 1998

"Most studies of BMI and other measures of obesity have not adequately accounted for physical fitness, a known modifier of weight status and a potential mediator of the effects of obesity on CAD [Coronary Artery Disease] and adverse CV outcomes ? Our data support previous studies showing that functional capacity appears to be more important than BMI for all-cause and CV mortality, especially in women."
-JAMA, 2004

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/11/2011 12:15

It's not the Tiramisu or the biscuits people need to worry about, it's whether they managed to do some exercise that day.

Iscreamtea · 06/11/2011 12:16

thunderboltsandlightning I hear you. It is possible for someone to have a bad relationship with food and not be overweight. It's pretty unlikely that if you do have a healthy relationship with food you would be overweight. If you can drop all the social and emotional baggage that comes with food and truly listen to your body to tell you what it needs your weight will take care of itself.

I have a very screwed up relationship with food, to complex to summarise here, so I am one of those obese mothers. What I do for my children is not to place too many restrictions on them. Halloween sweets for eg they get told to eat what they like. The result is my 8 yr old dd is slim and is quite happy to decline an ice cream after dinner if she is full, will only eat half a slice of cake if that is enough for her and is just as likely to choose an apple as a bag of crisps when given the choice. We trust babies to know when and how much to eat so why not children and adults. I just need to work on my own reasons for not listening to my body properly now.

Esta3GG · 06/11/2011 12:16

What is an anti-fattist?

soupyloopy · 06/11/2011 12:17

You've misunderstood me up there thunder You accused someone of eating just two biscuits of having a diet mentality.

They just want two biscuits; diet and health are totally interchangeable so there's no point stripping it out saying if someone refuses the third biscuits they're dieting and have a dieters mentality when actually ultimately they don't want to become unhealthy by virtue of eating what is often, poor quality, nutritionally depleted food.

Where are the anti-fattists?

I can't say I've seen them

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