to be completely shocked and disgusted at the leaflet I've just been given by my mw???

[mummylovesnancy]

This leaflet, titled 'Raised BMI in Pregnancy' was passed on to me by my midwife at my booking in appointment yesterday. Along with the words 'You can't have a home birth, you probably won't deliver naturally and you'll be given consultant led care.'
I'm 28, I have 2 PERFECTLY healthy children who both have perfect height to weight ratios, eat well, are active and are generally normal children. I weigh 13st and I'm 5'2 which puts me in the 'obese' catagory according to the good ol' BMI index of wonder. I have been roughly this weight and exactly this height for all of my adult life. I am overweight, I accept that, but what I don't accept is being told to read this sodding leaflet which tells me, among various other little pearlers, that:
*I will have raised blood pressure. (Not 'I may', 'I WILL')
*I will be prone to urinary tract infections. (never had one in my life!)
*'Bigger Ladies' (exact wordage) get more blood clots. (Dumb Fuck)
*Examinations will be difficult. (Why? Because you have to part all my layers of fat to get to my vag?! How fucking degrading)
*I will have restricted mobilisation. (Will I? Because I don't now, will it automatically come with being fat and preggers?)
*Putting in a drip will be difficult. (yeah because my hands are so freaking chubby.)
*Breastfeeding will be challenging (I've managed it with two babies, now because you've changed your guidelines I think I might struggle.)
And my favourite one yet:
*The risk of stillbirth or your baby dying in the first 28 days is increased in 'larger ladies' (Thanks for that one, nhs, I just had a misscarriage 8 weeks ago. Was it because I'm fat?)

It also mentions on about 7 occasions that I may want an epidural. Is that to keep me quiet?! It also offers to refer me to a dietician and a counsellor.

I have been overweight (or a larger or bigger lady, as the nhs prefers) and given birth naturally twice with absolutely no complications and one of them was a home birth. I can't believe I have to read all this shit. The idiot who wrote this doesn't even know how to place an apostrophe or comma ffs!

Does anyone agree with me that this is a disgusting, degrading, scare mongering piece of shit or am I being an unreasonable pregnant wreck??

Thunder go and enclose yourself in a vacuum and talk there; you will have the same impact long-term I'm sure. Speakers corner is also an option you know; there are some real characters up there.

You are a pseudo-scientist, you link silly websites, 2004 bbc articles but never any credible peer-reviewed stuff that YOU have actually read, digested and formed an opinion on. Yet you insist repeatedly that other people provide you with the same.

I always like to see where the 'alternative thinkers' get their views from. The fact that you are a pseudo-scientist doesn't meant you're not worth talking to generally. But know your own limitations, please.

Off to watch the spider in the corner of my room finish its web

And will cabbage soup for a day or two really harm you?

Not if you want to lose the paunch, then actually, you will, as many are, be pleased to do it (or pleased with the results anyway).

Really, why is this a problem?

I weigh myself frequently on the wi fit and I know how much I weigh. Not because I hate my body or 'have a dysfunctional relationship with food' but because I don't want to develop cardiovascular disease or type 2 diabetes as both of my parents did. My father had his 1st heart attack at 52 [a year older than I am now] and died 8 years later. Reducing my weight [in a healthy way] is the best way of protecting myself against ill health. A very good incentive for not eating all the jaffa cakes.
Buying smaller clothes and looking slimmer are very nice but not the most important thing.

I weighed myself for this thread. Do it twice a year or so. I weighed myself once a month when I was working out a lot, mainly to see how much muscle I was putting on.

Ex-anorexics aren't supposed to weigh ourselves :) And very few people actually need to. Your clothes are either tighter or looser, or they still fit.

please be aware custard cake is not me

thanks

I have followed this thread from the outset, and I have not read anything from Quiet, Soupy, Garlic et al, which is indicative of fat/food hatred, extreme control freakery or a soulless attitude towards food. Charges, which in my view, have been unfairly levelled at them. I don't support Thunder's approach. Not all diets/eating plans are dangerous and lead to binging/self loathing/failure/eating disorders. It depends on the person. Some people have many attempts and then crack it, when they perhaps do a lot of emotional work, they are in the right place, the weight loss acts as a motivator and the new way of eating (whether calorie counting like WW or Atkins becomes a way of life)

It is possible to enjoy food and over indulge on occasion without becoming neurotic alongside having an off switch and not being consumed by it-as the aforementioned posters have attested. "Healthy" food can make you gain weight if you take in more than you need/burn off. I am not a serial "dieter", but yes, I am a failed one. The cutting down on carbohydrates was and is, something I think that could work for me-the structure, the little room for ambiguity, especially, if like Quiet said upthread-I change my mindset to not see leaving some food on my plate/abstaining from certain foods as "DENYING" myself-to psychologically reframe it.

It is eating what I want when I want and too much of it-esp carbs, coupled with an over focus on the sensual/pleasure seeking element of food/eating and not respecting sensible limits, that has made me the size I am.

I think your points there, Delicious, about the conflation of food and emotions and about perceiving "denial" in a partially-eaten meal, are the key factors. Clearing the plate was drummed into many of us as children - a wartime necessity, now redundant (and let's hope it stays that way!)

Mind you, there's another wartime/childhood lesson which could do with more emphasis these days: eat slowly. That way, your body gets a chance to let you know when it's had enough :)

Sorry but the OP admits she is obese and then says she finds a leaflet degrading because it points out that because she is fat she may need extra care? they are not forcing you to read the leaflet so dont bother. Its just advice - like the advise that being obese is really unhealthy but you're obviously happy to ignore that so why can't you do the same with the laflet?

Yes, Garlic-I "bolt" my food. A bad habit picked up in childhood. I had a loving but strict stepfather, who would insist I ate certain foods I hated as "they are good for you"-so I would bolt to get it over with-to not "taste". I try and fail, to do the chew x 20 thing. Of course, I know, it's a contributory factor to my over eating.
I watch the eating habits of slim people I know-friends/colleagues/close family. They eat well and with gusto, but rarely polish EVERYTHING off from their plates-they stop when full. They are rarely emotional eaters-turning to food if they have had a crap day and/or to "reward" themselves, although of course, like most, they will eat just because they "fancy" something from time to time. They don't seem to "fear" the feeling of being hungry. If they have a big blow out meal for lunch, they rarely do the same at dinner. In short, they seem to have an "off switch".

In the last few years I have put on weight and this time last week was having a preg scare, whileI would love a baby am actually relieved because wouldlike to get weight down before getting preg again as having lost 3 before at a normal weight I would worry more being higher weight now.

Thunder I just can't understand the point you are making.

On the one hand you urge people to eat healthily and listen to their bodies but then you accuse someone who swaps a tiramisu for fruit salad or stops at two biscuits of having an unhealthy relationship with food and being gripped by dieting tyranny.

You write of exercising self control as a bad thing, you appear to pity those who need to do so, without recognising that if you really can eat what you want when you want and maintain a size 12 figure you are extraordinarily fortunate.

I love food. I have a small business baking and spend hours leafing through cook books and perfecting recipes. Most of the food I eat is consumed because I love it and i find eating a pleasure not because I am hungry. If I didn't exercise a bit of self control, if I didn't sometimes choose cereal rather than two lavishly buttered slices of crusty bread topped with soft poached eggs for breakfast or choose not to eat a second oozing brownie fresh from the oven I would get fat.

And being fat would bother me. Not because I hate fat people as you have suggested, but because I value my health. I have put on weight when pregnant and carrying even an extra 20lbs - weight that we are designed to carry it being made up of our babies and placentas is hard going. The strain on my back and hips was noticeable, as was the restriction in my mobility. To live like that permanently is not what I would wish for.

I like being active, I like riding my horse and snowboarding. I like running round after my DC's: taking them climbing and cycling, playing tennis etc. In order to do that sometimes I have to say no to the cheese board, decline the bar of chocolate. You clearly see such choices as some sort of insufferable denial. I don't understand that attitude. I can't. I am grateful that I am able to exercise sufficient self control to live the life I want. I can't see that as a failing: I am not deprived, I am fortunate.

"I don't know, if you are obese, how you manage your DCs diet? Do you just let them eat the same as you and not notice, or bother, that they are overweight- or do you eat separately and feed them a different diet?"

I don't understand this question ExoticFruits, are you saying I'm obese? I'm not.

My question was not to you, someone of 5ft 8ins and size 12, it was to an obese person. If the person is obese they cannot have good eating habits. My question was 'does the obese person relax totally with their DCs and let them eat the same or do they eat separately and keep their DC on a separate diet.
I can't see, after all the fuss thunder, that we are very different as I am an inch shorter than you and size 12. I explained way back that I only got there when I stopped dieting, stopped counting calories, stopped weighing myself and changed my eating habits for life -there is no point in having a very restrictive diet, losing the weight and then enjoying yourself and putting it back. You need to follow the basics of a food pyramid You find a diet that suits you, mine has a piece of chocolate everyday and I have found an excellent cake that I make that is sugarless, fatless and eggless and other things that suit me. You get used to it and I enjoy my food. For DCs I would never label foods 'bad', I would just use the pyramid and have all things in moderation and make sure they get plenty of exercise.
OP hasn't exactly admitted she is obese, only that she is overweight and technically obese. She doesn't appear to want to change-even though the risks have been pointed out. There are health risks even if you are not pregnant.

It would be far more important to me, as a mother, to be able to run after the DC in the park, go on cycle rides, go swimming, ice skating etc with them than eat whole packets of jaffa cakes at once, knowing it will restrict how much and how far and how fast I can move.

If everyone could 'listen to their bodies' and eat sensibly and healthily and in moderation, then - hallelujah - we'd all be within healthy weight ranges.

But lots of us just can't do that for a variety of reasons, therefore we have to be aware of what foods to choose and how much we consume.

I love food and don't 'diet' but, yes, I 'deprive' myself of the buttery/mayonnaisey sandwiches I would love to scoff all day every day. I eat fruit instead of much-coveted crisps.

What in the name of Christopher Biggins is wrong with that??

I stopped reading this thread when worra started posting research about babies dying if mothers are obese and bolding it all.

Some people have had a complete sensitivity bypass..the Op is pregnant and will be obese in early pregnancy, and others on this thread, no need to ram studies in her face about her baby dying and bolding the words just to win an argument.

queen that is the best post yet. That is exactly how it is for me, even down to the baking and riding!

Allowing yourself to become obese and then grizzling because a leaflet points out the risks you are and your baby are under is laughable. Except it isn't because the risks exist and the taxpayer will be picking up the tab for her and every other pregnant woman who doesn't keep her weight within healthy boundaries.

My brother's SIL is obese and pregnant. She has extra scans, is diabetic and is already booked for a CS and is under a consultant. Her pregnancy is costing thousands more than it would if she had kept a healthy weight. Why should the NHS pick up the tab when it is so stretched?

Stop making excuses for being fat, get self control, get exercising and get fit.Most of us manage it and we ain't special or super disciplined.

Sensitivity bypass? There needs to be a confrontation point. I think in drugs or drink they call it an intervention. Its exactly the same thing. The sensitivity thing with obesity is just an excuse not to face up to the problem

Again, I say, the OP didn't like the terms larger or bigger lady. What would she prefer? That is sensitive and I STILL can't think of better phrases. Personally I don't really care if she chooses to ignore it all, but I don't think she has much of a leg to stand on complaining when its pointed out to her. We haven't seen the actual leaflet and I still have doubts about just how badly worded it is (it sounds like it was the midwife not the leaflet who said she couldn't have a home birth for example and she's paraphrased and taken comments out of context.).

No, my point ws, the Op is pregnant and obese and posting research about babies dying ll do nothing to change that, she can't instantly lose weight.

So posting such stuff is highly insensitive and can only be done from some real resentment of obese people or to win an argument online with someone you don't know. Very unnecessary and a step too far.

Quietly

'Ladies' should only be used when 'gentlemen' is also appropriate. I'll bet prostate/vasectomy operation leaflets talk about 'men', rather than 'gentlemen'.

Ladies is outdated and has sexist overtones.

originalposter I certainly agree that "ladies" is outdated and has sexist overtones but I'm pretty sure it was the preface "larger" that the OP objected to.

And it is a fair question - if you are obese how do you want to be referred to?

I think big woman or large woman is worse! I don't get the sexist thing AT ALL!! Gentleman is a word I don't here men using. I hear women using ladies all the time. Baffled

Also, if we are handing out leaflets should we vet who we give them to, just in case they get upset because they've recently had for example a miscarriage or a family member die from similar condition? Its unrealistic and we shouldn't omit facts like that just because they might upset someone unfortunately. The OP got upset over the content of the leaflet for that - thats not the fault of the NHS. She suggested it wasn't true and they were blaming her. Neither is correct.

"On the one hand you urge people to eat healthily and listen to their bodies but then you accuse someone who swaps a tiramisu for fruit salad or stops at two biscuits of having an unhealthy relationship with food and being gripped by dieting tyranny."

Because she's making those choices about weight -and that is a dieters' mentality.

"You write of exercising self control as a bad thing, you appear to pity those who need to do so, without recognising that if you really can eat what you want when you want and maintain a size 12 figure you are extraordinarily fortunate."

What I said was that people who feel the need to exercise "self-control" with food need to look deeper at their relationship with it and their bodies. Pretty much everybody who is talking about the self-control malarkey is concerned about putting on weight. It's not about health or enjoying a good relationship with food, it's about fitting into a certain size of clothes. That's the problem. Nobody should be thinking about their bodies in those sort of terms.

If you listen to your body and respect it, it won't overeat, but as soon as you start on the dieting weight loss bandwagon, you are taking huge risks about being able to pay attention to your body's needs and giving it what it wants.

This isn't contraversial, dieting doesn't work. It's well known, yet some people are absolutely committed to that lifestyle.

I have only read p 1 and 38 - too much to do today!

I am a midwife and a while ago was looking after a 22 year old in labour with a BMI of 56. I had to catheterise her and it took me 10 minutes and I almost broke my hand. Because I literally couldn't find her urethra!

No other way to say that, it is a fact, and in 15 years of being a midwife, it is true that examinations are harder to perform. Obviously I try my utmost to not make it degrading to the woman, but it probably is anyway because things take longer.

Last month a lady came in at 7cm, BMI of 58, and the mw thought it was breech. A scan confirmed it and also after 2 doctors checking the heart for 2-3 mins, also confirmed an IUD. She was given drugs in labour she shouldn't have, the cord was cut before it shouldn't have been and she went through hell for about an hour. Because when her baby was passed to her, it made a noise, a gasp. She was successfully resusitated and went home with her mum a week later. Great news. But that IUD was diagnosed because she was so obese and made the USS hard to read.

Obviously, being so obese is harder than a BMI of say 32, I do appreciate that, but although the leaflet sounds like it was written badly, it also has alot of truth in it.