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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be completely shocked and disgusted at the leaflet I've just been given by my mw???

999 replies

mummylovesnancy · 04/11/2011 08:32

This leaflet, titled 'Raised BMI in Pregnancy' was passed on to me by my midwife at my booking in appointment yesterday. Along with the words 'You can't have a home birth, you probably won't deliver naturally and you'll be given consultant led care.'
I'm 28, I have 2 PERFECTLY healthy children who both have perfect height to weight ratios, eat well, are active and are generally normal children. I weigh 13st and I'm 5'2 which puts me in the 'obese' catagory according to the good ol' BMI index of wonder. I have been roughly this weight and exactly this height for all of my adult life. I am overweight, I accept that, but what I don't accept is being told to read this sodding leaflet which tells me, among various other little pearlers, that:
*I will have raised blood pressure. (Not 'I may', 'I WILL')
*I will be prone to urinary tract infections. (never had one in my life!)
*'Bigger Ladies' (exact wordage) get more blood clots. (Dumb Fuck)
*Examinations will be difficult. (Why? Because you have to part all my layers of fat to get to my vag?! How fucking degrading)
*I will have restricted mobilisation. (Will I? Because I don't now, will it automatically come with being fat and preggers?)
*Putting in a drip will be difficult. (yeah because my hands are so freaking chubby.)
*Breastfeeding will be challenging (I've managed it with two babies, now because you've changed your guidelines I think I might struggle.)
And my favourite one yet:
*The risk of stillbirth or your baby dying in the first 28 days is increased in 'larger ladies' (Thanks for that one, nhs, I just had a misscarriage 8 weeks ago. Was it because I'm fat?)

It also mentions on about 7 occasions that I may want an epidural. Is that to keep me quiet?! It also offers to refer me to a dietician and a counsellor.

I have been overweight (or a larger or bigger lady, as the nhs prefers) and given birth naturally twice with absolutely no complications and one of them was a home birth. I can't believe I have to read all this shit. The idiot who wrote this doesn't even know how to place an apostrophe or comma ffs!

Does anyone agree with me that this is a disgusting, degrading, scare mongering piece of shit or am I being an unreasonable pregnant wreck??

OP posts:
Poppyella · 06/11/2011 10:58

And actually, yes OP, you do have to part layers of fat to reach certain orifices! It's a fact. How else you meant to find them!!??

Alouisee · 06/11/2011 11:04
DownbytheRiverside · 06/11/2011 11:05

OP, do you think the leaflet contains inaccurate information?
That the facts that they present are wrong?
Because IMO, that is the only grounds you could challenge them on. You are overweight and the mw is informing you of the risks. She'd do the same if you were a smoker presumably.

Alouisee · 06/11/2011 11:06

Makes you wonder who actually wants to have sex with someone with a BMI of 56?

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/11/2011 11:06

Anyway TQOD, upthread you said everybody should be on a healthy calorie controlled diet, so it sounds to me like you're a dieter.

Of course dieters will defend dieting and watching their weight because they care about what size they are.

samstown · 06/11/2011 11:09

Ok Thunder, I am really struggling to understand your argument! Are you saying that if we just eat what we want when we want and forget about weight, we will all just magically morph into a healthy size? Help me out here please!

HoneyPablo · 06/11/2011 11:09

YABU
The risks of being overweight are well-known, just because you choose to ignore them doesn't make them any less real. it just means that the NHS has to deal with them, costing it more money and time.
13 stone and 5 foot 2 is very big. I am the same height and the most I have ever weighed is 9 stone and that's when I was 9 months pregnant.

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/11/2011 11:10

dieting doesn't work - analysis of 31 studies

""Several studies indicate that dieting is actually a consistent predictor of future weight gain," said Janet Tomiyama, a UCLA graduate student of psychology and co-author of the study. One study found that both men and women who participated in formal weight-loss programs gained significantly more weight over a two-year period than those who had not participated in a weight-loss program, she said.
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Another study, which examined a variety of lifestyle factors and their relationship to changes in weight in more than 19,000 healthy older men over a four-year period, found that "one of the best predictors of weight gain over the four years was having lost weight on a diet at some point during the years before the study started," Tomiyama said. In several studies, people in control groups who did not diet were not that much worse off ? and in many cases were better off ? than those who did diet, she said."

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/11/2011 11:13

I think that's probably because you're not reading my posts Sam.

Which bit of people should eat a healthy diet and take exercise, but stop worrying about what size and weight they are, is complicated to understand?

TheQueenOfDeDead · 06/11/2011 11:13

thunder you are making huge assumptions that by talking about weight I (or anyone else) is concerned simply about dress size and not about health.

The fact is that there are two good indicators as to whether excess fat is impacting (or is likely to impact) on your health that is what you weigh and how you look. You seem to object to both of those methods so I am interested by what means do you think we should assess our health? Or do we simply wait until our heart or knees give up or we are wheezing when we walk up stairs before acknowledging poor health?

I think a lot of people talk about putting "weight" on as short hand (and perhaps a more polite way of saying) putting fat on. So it is not actually the weight that bothers them but what that excess weight represents. As I and many others have stated excess weight means less mobility and more chance of poor health. Do you really believe that everyone concerned about their weight doesn't actually care about those things?

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/11/2011 11:14

So given that calorie controlled weight loss dieting makes people put weight on, it would be quite interesting to see how many overweight and obese women have histories of calorie counting or weight loss dieting.

I wonder if that study has ever been done.

samstown · 06/11/2011 11:21

Which bit of people should eat a healthy diet and take exercise, but stop worrying about what size and weight they are, is complicated to understand?

Yes, but you are saying it is bad to swap a tiramasu for a fruit salad (food issues, eeek!) and that it is fine to eat a whole packet of jaffa cakes in one sitting! How is that a healthy diet? Ok so I get that a tiramsu is fine once in a while, but sometimes you would have to replace it with something healthier otherwise you would get fat!

quietlyafraid · 06/11/2011 11:22

facepalm

Dieting is different to simply considering your portion sizes and how many calories is on that plate compared to a bigger plate. Changing your eating habits and mindset and relationship to food is not dieting, but may including recognising what is too much. Calorie aware not counting... Is that hard to understand? I wouldn't ever say to anyone to go on a calorie controlled diet - its total crap. I don't think diets work. I never suggested they did.

PigletJohn · 06/11/2011 11:22

""So given that calorie controlled weight loss dieting makes people put weight on,"

It it "given" or proven that calorie control causes weight gain?

Could it be that people who are gaining weight try dieting and are unsuccessful?

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/11/2011 11:23

I dunno Queen, it's kind of jumping out of your posts:

"theQueenOfDeDead Fri 04-Nov-11 15:44:34
alpine "triathlon fit" suggests serious athlete which as already discussed rather skews weight. Either that or you were buying your size 12 somewhere bizarre.

I am 5' 3" weight 8st 12lb, I am still carrying a little extra weight round my middle from the birth of DC4 in March but couldn't do up (several) size 12's in Oasis this week."

And there's good old Soupy asking me what dress size I am, not even how much I weigh.

Or there's this:

"people bigger than a UK 14/16 think, well, fuck it then"

Depends on the person. Many receive it as a wake-up call."

Weight loss dieting is about dress size. The health thing is just a smokescreen except in a few rare cases.

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/11/2011 11:24

"facepalm"

How rude. :)

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/11/2011 11:30

Samstown, you're still not reading my posts. I said that I ate a packet of Jaffa cakes once in my life because I enjoyed it. That's once. Do you get that? Once. That's not unhealthy, that's just a packet of biscuits. My health hasn't been damaged by doing that.

Do you know why it was a good thing - because I didn't deny myself. If I did deny myself I'd probably be obsessed with jaffa cakes, obsessed with portion size, make choices about food, not on what I want but on what I can self deny. And a very common upshot of that kind of thing is bingeing and secret eating, that people don't even acknowledge to themselves. Unless you have an iron will. Which some people clearly do, but others don't.

And my point about the Tiramisu if it's still to hard to understand is that she didn't make that choice on health reasons, she made it because she might put on weight. A dieters' mentality.

samstown · 06/11/2011 11:30

Thunder what is your definition of a 'healthy' diet?

samstown · 06/11/2011 11:33

But weight and health are inextricably linked - too much weight = unhealthy. So it doesnt matter if you are making the choice for health reasons or weight reasons, tey are the same thing.

TheQueenOfDeDead · 06/11/2011 11:34

thunder your other posts make it clear that you and I have a very different view of what a calorie controlled diet is.

In my opinion anything that restricts the amount of calories that are consumed is a calorie controlled diet so that would include slimming world and the diet that you linked to, despite the fact that you would not be required to count a calorie, nor necessarily know what one is.

If by being a dieter you mean someone who follows a plan then no I am not, but I do recognise that there is a loose equation that what goes in in terms of energy must be expended.

CustardCake · 06/11/2011 11:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

soupyloopy · 06/11/2011 11:35

Becaue thunder you're the one who is focused on weight and telling people they shouldn't worry about it.

So asking for someone dress size isn't asking their weight is it, you nimrod. You s said you were happy with yourself and that could be at a size 20 or a size 6 which is why I asked about dress size and not weight.

Has it ever occurred to you that the people who diet are the ones who have issues with food in the first place and that there are many people out there who don't diet and never have but habitually without any thought or calorie counting just watch their intake. I mean this in the sense that they eat a reasonable amount of fibre and protein (the WHO recommended way to manage weight due to their hugely satiating properties compared with refined and/or high fat foods) as many of us have suggested and so these people never have to diet?

You are also saying that even that is not good enough it has to be a free for all, eating what you like, when you like. Yet that NoS booked you linked, actually doesn't allow for this. Which is it thunder

And eating what you want and need (two terms you seems to have used interchangebly) are not the same thing are they.

Nobody, but nobody needs to eat a packet of jaffa cakes or a whole packet of cashews from a nutritional point of view. They may want to, but they sure as hell don't need to.

TheQueenOfDeDead · 06/11/2011 11:36

OK you've lost me Confused

dress size/the way you look/your weight are all useful indicators of how fat you are or are not.

How do you judge whether you are fat?

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/11/2011 11:37

Minnesota Starvation Experiment - why dieting doesn't work

"Keys put 36 physically and mentally healthy men on a calorie controlled diet, with a moderate amount of exercise, and, in a matter of weeks, he turned them into physical and emotional wrecks (bulimics to all intents and purposes).

Physically, the men reported incessant hunger, weakness, exhaustion and they lost 21% of their strength in the first 12 weeks alone. They experienced dizziness, muscle wasting, hair loss and reduced coordination. Several withdrew from their university classes, because they simply didn?t have the energy or motivation to attend.

Psychologically, the men became obsessed with food, meal times and everything to do with eating (a number became chefs after the experiment; such was their interest in food). They had to ?buddy up? to avoid breaking their diets, as their drive to binge was so enormous. Before the buddy system was put in place, a couple did get hold of some forbidden food and binge and suffered extreme guilt and self-loathing as a result. (It is fair to assume, therefore, that, had this not been a confined experiment, all men would have given up on their ?diet?). The men reported extreme depression, irritability, a sense of deprivation and they lost all interest in sex. (They actually lost all interest in anything other than food ? such is the human drive to overcome hunger).

The deficit, in Keys? study, started off at 1,640 calories a day. Assuming that the deficit remained at 1,640 for the 24 week ?starvation? period, if the 3,500 formula were correct, during the 24 weeks, every man should have lost at least 78 pounds in fat alone and more on top of this in water and lean tissue. The average weight loss of the men was less than half of this ? 37 pounds ? 1.5 pounds per week. If the 3,500 formula were correct, the lightest man in the study, Bob Villwock from Ohio, should have finished the study below three stone (he would, of course, have died long before this).

As Keys showed, the men needed 3,200 calories, on average, to maintain their weight. As the men were given 1,570 calories a day in the ?starvation period?, they lost weight and their energy need fell and therefore the calorie level needed to fall, to maintain the deficit.

Interestingly, Keys rejected the 3,500 formula from the outset and relied instead on adjusting the calorie intake every week to try to induce his desired weight loss of 25%. Keys found he needed to limit some men to 1,000 calories a day to try to induce further weight loss (the men should have been losing over 5lbs per week, at this calorie intake, having created a deficit of almost 2,500 calories a day from their original calorie need. In reality the body had adjusted energy need to resist any further weight loss).

All reached a plateau around week 20 and further weight loss could not be induced. At least one diary recorded weight gain in the final month of the ?starvation? period.

During the restricted rehabilitation period, the four different groups of men were given 400, 800, 1,200 or 1,600 additional calories per day. Within each group of eight men, some were also given additional vitamin and protein supplements. Ancel Keys concluded that the only thing that determined the speed at which the men recovered was the calorie intake. The body didn?t respond to vitamins or protein ? it just wanted the energy (calorie) deficit to be reversed.

It can be no surprise; therefore, that when given free access to food, in the final two months, the men overate and binged to correct the calorie deficit they had suffered. One man managed to eat 11,500 calories in one day and men still felt hungry consuming twice the number of calories that maintained their weight in the control period. They all gained all their weight back and approximately 10% more than they weighed before the experiment. Men who had previously shown no awareness of body size and image reported ?feeling fat?."

I dont endorse Zoe Harcombe BTW, but she's reporting this correctly.

quietlyafraid · 06/11/2011 11:38

Thunder the facepalm is entirely appropriate when you accuse everyone of not reading your posts and coming round to your way of thinking for the past 20 odd pages of posts, when you completely fail to read anyone else posts, and deliberately are arguing black is white on every single comment that anyone else puts and put words into everyone else's mouth. Its frustration. I have found some of your attacks on various people here, a lot more rude. But still. Its all a matter of opinion and clearly you are never going to agree with anyone else but yourself.

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