to think that, in general, people in the UK have an appalling attitude towards academically bright children?

[AKMD]

I realise that that's a sweeping generalisation but it irks me. I am academically bright and had a dreadful time at school, not really from the other children, but from the teachers and friends' parents, who were quite sneery and mocked me infront of the whole class/friends if I ever did get anything wrong. It always felt that they were waiting for me to trip up and that they resented me just because I was good all-rounder (terrible at art though!). That was only 7 years ago. Since then, I've seen it happen time and again when people openly jeer at others who are clever, especially girls and women, and it's seen as completely acceptable. Just a few weeks ago on here, I was really shocked when a mother posted in Children's Books about her 18mo DD liking books and asked for age-appropriate suggestions, to be met with sarcasm about introducing her to Joyce and applying to Mensa. I've seen one regular MNer who clearly has bright children be sneered at when she said that the gap between her DDs' intellectual and emotional maturity caused them social problems: "Oh, poor you, it must be sooo hard to have clever children ."

AIBU to think that this attitude is disgusting and that the obstacles placed in the way of bright children are one of the reasons why we as a country are increasingly going to struggle to compete in a global market?

From my own experience, I got the impression that it was thought that if only I would stop trying so hard to do well in tests, I'd be a better-rounded person. Whereas it was just a quirk of nature that I could remember things without having to learn them.

What I mean is that it maybe wasn't seen as an innate thing, whereas hard work or sportiness or good hair were (because they are). (I think the ability to work hard is a difficult one.)

Those who were encouraged by parents and other students for being bright, were you privately educated? I went to a comprehensive and was bullied for being bright, and bookish rather than sporty. It was very unfashionable to actually want to learn.

Doh - please remove "by parents and"

Well I have a bright child who flies along at school, and a child who is struggling with the basics and he is the one who is breaking my heart atm So no, given DD's life chances compared to DS's I think you are all talking nonsense.

Towndon No, I went to a local comprehensive school. Of course, I did get called names by some other kids, but tbh I thought they were oiks.

well I've got a sister with a first and long term severe and crippling depression brought about by years of bullying at school for being both bright and pretty (double whammy for a girl) - so I'd rather mine were that cliche of 'happy' than either bright or thick as two planks.

I was at a state comp, but interestingly, the worst bullies were in the upper streams, with me. Ones who were academic, but not coming top. Really low-achieving, truanting, delinquent-style kids were always really nice to me! I don't know why. In one subject, I had to go in the lowest stream at GCSE because of a timetabling issue. I was one of the most academic kids in the school and everyone else in the class was lowest stream. It was a great experience - no one minded at all that I was clever, they were cool about it, and the teacher was a lovely, lovely bloke who guided us all at our own pace.

That makes me think competitiveness and jealousy underlies some of this, even if it's not always conscious.

I think a broad section of society in Britain is quite anti-intellectual. I mean among certain groups of people I know you couldn't come out with certain things without them being like "Ooh, get her!" Like, I don't know, if I just said I listened to Radio 3 or 4 or something like that!

I also know loads of people who had a similar experience to me in schools while growing up of being enthusiastic and wanting to learn, perhaps doing well academically or in other spheres, and being called a swot and/or a snob for it. Actually doing well at secondary school was ok, as long as you didn't admit to having worked hard for it. Ridiculous really. Probably most of those people would have got over it and done quite well in their lives, a lot better than the name callers, but it's still not a good situation. My husband absolutely did not have the same experience at his school where the kids wanted to do their best.

I really hope schools today are doing more to stamp out bullying and encourage the kids who do actually want to learn, and indeed those who don't!

DH says that smart people were bullied at his school; he says that you would be automatically singled out if you were seen as "trying", let alone actually do well: this was in secondary school and A levels. In general, people left him alone as he was a "big guy", but he hated the general culture of smart=loser and he still looks back at his schooling years with sadness.

My experience was different - I remember a certain sneer towards clever children (not in the UK btw), but I would say that bullying was more rife towards people who were not pretty/did not have the right clothes, that kind of thing. Equally disgusting - and teachers were not very attentive to bullying issues in those days. Some of the stories here are awful, and I am shocked that this attitude is still present in schools!

I do not think that is true for MN though: everyone's children on here seem to be superbright, and frankly I feel sometimes that I am the only one with a fairly average child (I believe so, anyway - she is 3, summer born and very premature, so we stand no chance, ).

I'm pretty bright, was singled out at school. I went to a large state comprehensive. Spent every break and lunch time in the library because those that picked on me didn't go there. Hated school, and have absolutely no friends from school. Got plenty from uni, jobs and various other places though.

You're right...I have a friend in China and she says that everyone admires and expects academic excellence in children. In the UK we seem to resent it. What a shame.

If you are clever and arrogant then you are likely to be sneered at. One must always remind ones children that being clever does not guarantee a successful life.
I think that people on MN get annoyed if they post about their dcs academic woes and then a 'helpful' mumsnetter then uses this opportunity to boast about their 3 year old who loves to read novels by Evelyn Waugh.

Why must one remind children of that?
Honest question.

I would rather teach my child that being a good person is important and that being clever is not enough .

But why do you assume that your child needs to be taught that it isn't enough? Where are they getting this message that you need to counteract?

my daughters are all very clever indeed, and also very pretty, they are often upset at their perception of themselves as 'geeky' and 'freaky' and i have to work hard at encouraging them to work to their full potential and not downplay their intelligence to be 'socially acceptable'...they are competitive amongst themselves and at home but very embarrassed to be at or near the top at school....they have been given the impression that 'normal' teens dont work hard, that they do just enough to get by and are always out partying/boyfriends etc.....i do struggle to change this viewpoint as it DOES appear that everyone else is always out drinking etc....i try telling them its all just bravado from their peers but who really knows?

i am so proud of them, and the work that they put in, and i would hate it if they let slip as i did at school because of peer pressure..as a primary school child i was always top of the class but when i got to secondary and didnt fit in i let it all go and the result for me has been an adult life of disappointed drifting.

I praise my daughter for trying hard, not for being clever. Being told I was clever led me to feel I wasn't allowed to make mistakes, or to shy away from things I found too hard.

Where are they getting this message that you need to counteract?

It's not that anything needs to be counteracted per se but it's not just up to schools to educate children, FGS.

I am appalled at the people on here that justify the bullying of intelligent children by saying they are 'obnoxious' or 'showing off'. Bullying is never justified.
I also agree with those who are angered by teachers/other supposidely responsible adults ridiculing children who otherwise do well in school for being bad at art or sports or other 'cooler' subjects. As a victim of this who was diagnosed as dyspraxic as an adult I am angered that 20 years later this still goes on.

"I am appalled at the people on here that justify the bullying of intelligent children by saying they are 'obnoxious' or 'showing off'. Bullying is never justified."

Absolutely it's bullying.

I'm also just disappointed that it's still ok to think "Hey, there's a clever kid. Let's take the edge off that for them, shall we?" I do not understand it.

Towndon I had an assisted place at an academically selective public school. The sort where everyone goes on to uni (half Oxbridge). In that environment I didn't stand out academically. Instead I stood out for being the poor kid with the second hand uniform and the dad who turned up to parents evening in a knackered old ford cortina.

Towndon - both. I went to about 8 different schools (parents moving)
I went to st helens & st katherines, and would have stayed there had we not moved. I then went to a local comp up north and went through hell so changed to another comp which I adored

Brighthair That wouldn't be in Farringdon Road would it?

Yes, OP, I do recognise the bullying you describe. No, it is not acceptable. Yes, it is constantly justified by people pretending that just to acknowledge it is 'showing off'. No, it is not insensitive of you to raise it on MN.

I don't have genius children and that doesn't seem rocket science to me.

Oh for god's sake!

It isn't endemic in UK society! It really isn't. You can come up with as many anecdotes as you like, the reality is that most teachers are delighted to have intelligent hard-working pupils who want to acheive. Why wouldn't they ? It makes them look good. I am struggling to imagine any of the teachers I know (socially or professionally) putting a bright child down in any way. And as for children teasing the clever ones? Well of course - anyone who stands out is a target for teasing, and whilst it isn't good, it isn't the end of the world. I got teased for being freakishly tall (and for having the social skills of a sack of coal), DH got teased for being a West Ham fan, DS1 got teased for having long hair. DD is top of her class for most subjects and yes, she is aware that she's a 'geek' but it doesn't bother her. She just gets on with it. There are groups of children of all kinds - chavs, and jocks, musicos.... (their names for themselves not mine!) she just happens to be one of the geeks.

I am perfectly happy to agree that much of our society is 'intellect-resistant' (i think anti-intellectual is a poncey term and much too self-important TBH ) and yes it drives me mad! But that does not always translate into being hostile to those who are clever. Clever kids just have to muck in with the rest of us. If you are clever you will go far - be grateful for that and spare a thought for those who won't!