to think that, in general, people in the UK have an appalling attitude towards academically bright children?

[AKMD]

I realise that that's a sweeping generalisation but it irks me. I am academically bright and had a dreadful time at school, not really from the other children, but from the teachers and friends' parents, who were quite sneery and mocked me infront of the whole class/friends if I ever did get anything wrong. It always felt that they were waiting for me to trip up and that they resented me just because I was good all-rounder (terrible at art though!). That was only 7 years ago. Since then, I've seen it happen time and again when people openly jeer at others who are clever, especially girls and women, and it's seen as completely acceptable. Just a few weeks ago on here, I was really shocked when a mother posted in Children's Books about her 18mo DD liking books and asked for age-appropriate suggestions, to be met with sarcasm about introducing her to Joyce and applying to Mensa. I've seen one regular MNer who clearly has bright children be sneered at when she said that the gap between her DDs' intellectual and emotional maturity caused them social problems: "Oh, poor you, it must be sooo hard to have clever children ."

AIBU to think that this attitude is disgusting and that the obstacles placed in the way of bright children are one of the reasons why we as a country are increasingly going to struggle to compete in a global market?

I have 5 children.
DD and DS1 both G&T. Sadly my darling girl never got to reach her potential because we lost her when she was 14.

DS1 has breezed through school and chosen to go down the musical path. I wanted him to be a doctor Goddammit!

I dont know about DCs 4 & 5 because they are so young. DC4 is certainly very bright though.

My DC3 is not. He has a few different SNs.

Whilst I admit it can be a struggle to keep up with G&T children and my DS1 is a charming PITA who has a mind that races ahead constantly - its my son with SN that I worry about most.

He gets picked on, he gets teased, he gets pointed at and he probably always will do. He cant come back with a sharp reposte when somebody says something mean. DS1 & DD could leave people in ashes on the floor with their comebacks.

Yes it can be hard when you are academically gifted but nothing that cannot be dealt with. Intelligence is always an advantage. Children can grow up and learn to cope with attitudes, they learn how to behave with others etc.

This isnt an option for lots of kids who are below average.

So on balance, having experience of both, I know which I would prefer for my child to make their life easier.

yanbu

you only have to pop over to the g and t board and find people making disparaging comments. the best thing is to hang about at the end of threads as then things get more supportive.

have found school to be a little unsupportive of bright children, and have had raised eyebrows and looks when asking one teacher for support. current school make children read through every sodding book in the scheme and parents are left to teach children at home if they are more able than the books given.

brighthair, how many pages is that?

I agree it's the boasting more than the intelligence itself that annoys people. If you make a point of informing people that you (or your children) are unusually rich, or sucessful, or beautiful, then you'd probably get a similar response.

Exceptional intelligence tends to make itself known anyway without making a big deal of it. I've worked with the occasional truly brilliantly clever person (in workplaces where pretty much everyone is at least fairly intelligent and highly educated) and they didn't need to tell me, it just shows.

OhDoAdmit, yes, I completely understand that pov. But knowing that in the long run she'd be ok in life didn't help me cope or deal with her behaviour any better. I was well aware that there was lots of children with far more complex needs but I also needed help and found it hugely frustrating that both the HVs and my GP were dismissive of what was very challenging behaviour simply because she was exceptionally bright.

Do people really go to the trouble of seeking out the g&t boards just to make disparaging comments ? That really is BU FGS!

Brighthair, I had the exact same experience in school I too can speed read and was never believed.
I however am also dyslexic, I have an odd form of it accord to the ed psy who tested me.
My spelling has to be seen to be believed (I do all my posts on here in word and the C & P) I still cannot tell my right from my left can't take dictation, can?t sound words out to spell. And even at nearly 40 occasionally get confused when saying/arranging things in alphabetical order.

The amount of put downs/sneering I got from junior school teachers was horrific, and I think if my parents hadn?t been so strong I would have lost the plot. I was 3 weeks in secondary school before they realised I had an ?issue? was tested within a week and thrived after that

Sorry for the highjack!

I think that parents with very bright dc need to be sensitive to other parents. I have received some very sneery comments about my very bright dc about whom I have been careful never to boast but who has received national press coverage for her acheivements. She is very modest and hates the attention.
I have also been in the company of another bright but obnoxious oxbridge- heading child who regularly states that other universities are for losers and makes other equally nasty comments about her contemporaries who are unable to reach her intellectual dizzy heights. Meanwhile her dp smiles and nods while I seeth.

I went to a 'bog standard comprehensive' twenty years ago.

What I learnt there was a) looks matter, the prettiest girls not only get the boys, they don't get picked on either and b) don't under any circumstances let people know you are very clever as you will get sneered at for being 'posh', a 'goody-goody' and so on just for getting on with your work.

I spent my twenties also hiding my intelligence, not from employers or at work, but in social situations.

I found a lovely husband who is very clever so doesn't think my brains are all that, and now do a job in which being clever is highly valued.

I don't think being clever has disadvantaged me in any way, but the brighter children were bullied and picked on in my school. I don't want my children to attend a 'bog-standard comprehensive' in the Uk because of the anti-intellectual culture amongst lots of children (esp. working class boys).

I just wrote a very cathartic and long post about my experiences but tbh I left my demons behind when I left home and school. (To some extent, I think the lack of confidence has endured, but hey ho.)

I've never been so unhappy as when I was bullied, at home and at school, into 'knowing my place' because I had a good memory and knew when to use it (ie tests and exams).

Thankfully I could leave. It was like drinking a long, cool glass of water, after a lifetime of sour milk.

Anyway, that was my little world as a child/teenager. Thank fuck there are different environments out there for others.

And to all of you who say 'yeah he's bright but he's also arrogant/loud/not funny or whatever...so what? There are arrogant/loud/not funny people everywhere. Basically your 'intelligence' (whatever that actually is) is part of you so assessing someone's character then telling them they're also badly flawed, as often as you can work it into conversation, is pretty cruel. (And it has a lasting effect.)

I forgot to say: I only had a good memory and an aptitude for tests and a liking of school - I'm definitely not what I would call bright.

loving I wasnt trying to minimize how difficult it is coping with a challenging child

And dont forget I am looking at this from 20 years worth of hindsight!

My DS1 has in some ways been the most challenging of my children (so far). He is very clever. He drove me bonkers as a young child and when he hit his teens

But as much as I worry about him I know that he is clever enought to learn and cope. I think the biggest issue is that his intelligence gives him choices. If he decides to bum about behave like a tramp - he has chosen to. He knows how to go about things and has the capacity to do brilliantly. I hope he does. (please God he does!)

My DS2 doesnt have those choices though. His future is so much more limited than his brother's. I am not writing him off, we will support him to reach his potential. Realistically he is more likely to have a hard time though, however hard he tries.

the thing is those of us with children who shine academically are meant to keep quiet about it whilst endlessly listening to those sporty children being feted and wittering on about how many goals they have scored etc. or musical children being awarded cups .Thats what annoys me , my children happen to be good at classroom activities,both pretty hopeless at games ,its the double standards that make me annoyed .

For what its worth I also have a child with SpLd and it does give you a different attitude,small steps forward can reperesent huge achivements for him but i don't think that I should celebrate my two academiucally able childrens gifts any the less for that.

Make the statement 'my DC is fantastic a sport but crap as Science/Maths' and noone bats an eyelid.

Make the statement 'my DC is fantastic a Science/Maths but crap at sport' and suddenly you boasting etc.

As a total aside did anyone see the 'On average August babies struggle more than September babies' at school thing on the BBC?

Message boards were FULL of people saying it must be crap coz 'I was born in August and I'm really bright and did well at school!'

Yeah you're all so bright you cant figure out what 'on average' means.....

Entropygirl I noticed that too. The standard of scientific literacy is really poor (as Ben Goldacre has been saying for years).

blackeyedsusan - not sure but an average size novel would take me about 45 mins - 1hr to read (depending on interruptions!)

in the UK it is very important that you don't appear to try too hard. so if you are clever, better be offhand about it and not seem to make an effort. people can also be very jealous. one of ds1's friends mums once said something sneery along the lines of 'oh your son's so peeeeerfect isn't he?' I was quite pissed off tbh.

hardgoing I totally and utterly agree....in a world with 7 billion people and the internet in it there can be no more important thing to understand than that peoples individual life experiences are statistically insignificant....oh and that you should always check anything you read against the primary research....especially if you read it in a tabloid.

It is one of the things I absolutely loathe about the UK - the inability to just enjoy something that's good fortune (and sometimes hard work) and doesn't reflect on anybody else but the clever child.

OhDoAdmit, no, I realise that. The irony I think is that if she was of average intelligence then they may have taken my concerns more seriously and treated her as a child with challenging and very naughty behaviour; given my tips etc. However, because everyone could clearly see how able she was, then everything was put down to that and I was told I should be grateful.

This is hard when your 4yr old steps into the road and puts her hand up to prove she can make the oncoming car stop simply because you've told her the cars wont stop for her and she'll be squashed. She always had to be right with everything.

Brighthair,I read very fast as well,never measured it specifically but can relate to all your comments ,ds1 also has this trait and can devour a book vv quickly ,both of us have regualrly experienced people accusing us of lying etc.even dh will still say "but you can't have read it properly "!

I would not call myself academically brght in real, life and never think about intelligence actually but I do think in society generally being academically able or enjoying intellectual pastimes is sneered at and not considered cool in the same way as watching sport is .

Do people think that the ability to try hard/work hard is less genetically encoded than the ability to do maths really easily?

I have kinda assumed all my life that all aspects of your mental make up are essentially hardcoded at either the nature or nurture level?

I wouldnt congratulate myself on being nice and caring or hard working (supposing I was either of those - which Im not) than I would congratulate myself on being pretty or intelligent (also not personally applicable)....I didnt cause myself to be any of those things and they are not due to any effort on my part.

I was considered clever/swotty at a fairly rubbish state comp in the 90s and it didn't do me any favours especially, though I don't think I can put everything nasty I ever experienced down to that, to be fair. I was pretty gauche as well, and GHDs hadn't been invented then

I have been very pleased that this doesn't seem to be the case now, or not here, or not among the kids my kids have happened to be closest to.... whatever the reason, at both their schools it's been seen as good to be on top table/in top set, and the teachers have been the opposite of the sneery gits at my school when confronted with bright kids.

I think it is true that teenagers, or some of them, are inevitably a bit shallow sometimes, and I couldn't claim that the most popular confident girls aren't also the ones with the straightened hair and the tight trousers and the pretty faces - and, I have observed, the biggest houses. DD (14) did get some girls saying to her the other day 'we SAW you in the car in half term, you were reading a BOOK'. But she wasn't unduly upset.

Clever kids get called boffins, unsporty kids get called spazes, ginger kids get called ginner, skinny kids get called anorexic (all of these sometimes I mean, not consistently or always, I hope) - they're all nasty and they're all extremely regrettable, but I think we all feel our own, and our kids' own, pain the most, and sometimes that means we might get the impression that it's clever kids who suffer. I'm not sure it's that simple.

That came out with a few word missing :(

What I mean is that I think people do think better of someone for being hard working than being smart but Im not sure that being hard working isn't also an intrinsic part of your personality.

I am always v pleased that mine are so good at sports to balance out the effect of being clever - how screwed up is that, really?
anyway, am always telling mine that being clever is all well and good but it's hard work and/or being born loaded that make you successful in life, not how clever you are. I've always assumed the 'work hard' part was nurture more than nature, but the kids are really screwed if it's nature cos I'm a lazy madam.

I did very well at school. I was geeky, arrogant and clever. I had no problems with teachers, and only the occasional problem with other pupils.

All my life I have only ever experienced positive encouragement for myself and others academically. I have only ever been made to think that it's good to be intelligent. I am quite suprised to find out that this is not a universal thing.