to think that, in general, people in the UK have an appalling attitude towards academically bright children?

[AKMD]

I realise that that's a sweeping generalisation but it irks me. I am academically bright and had a dreadful time at school, not really from the other children, but from the teachers and friends' parents, who were quite sneery and mocked me infront of the whole class/friends if I ever did get anything wrong. It always felt that they were waiting for me to trip up and that they resented me just because I was good all-rounder (terrible at art though!). That was only 7 years ago. Since then, I've seen it happen time and again when people openly jeer at others who are clever, especially girls and women, and it's seen as completely acceptable. Just a few weeks ago on here, I was really shocked when a mother posted in Children's Books about her 18mo DD liking books and asked for age-appropriate suggestions, to be met with sarcasm about introducing her to Joyce and applying to Mensa. I've seen one regular MNer who clearly has bright children be sneered at when she said that the gap between her DDs' intellectual and emotional maturity caused them social problems: "Oh, poor you, it must be sooo hard to have clever children ."

AIBU to think that this attitude is disgusting and that the obstacles placed in the way of bright children are one of the reasons why we as a country are increasingly going to struggle to compete in a global market?

Also this reminds me of when I started my first job, my boss took me aside and said "You are clever, and you are tall, so XXXX [the big boss woman, who was short and hitlerish] won't like you - keep your head down."

I was appalled but also have to admit it was good advice. :(

I was academially bright. I was also socially inept (some things don't change . I had a hard time because of the latter, not because of the former. DD is also very bright and has a big circle of close friends and no problems at all (because she is also good company)

Don't be so quick to judge and yes, it was a ridiculous generalistion! Yes some people on here get very short shrift but that is only when they are being a bit ridiculous.

Whatmeworry At DD's grammar school people with less than perfect schools are seen as the odd ones out. That's not so good either.

The people I remember being picked on (in their own opinions) for being bright were not the ones who necessarily got the best grades. They were the ones who got excited if they knew an answer and would show off if they knew something that someone else didn't. It was this kind of attitude that did for them, not their grades or natural intelligence. I think it is a mistake for children to think they are better than others because they were born bright or have parents that have helped them, any more than it is an achievement to have tall parents when it comes to doing high jump. There is too much in schools about "doing better" "being better at" that it seeps into thinking the person is better in general.

If you could finish the set work quickly, the way to play it is to quietly get on with your homework not shut your jotter in a loud way to make a point that you beat other people, then look round distracting people and drawing attention to yourself - that is what gets people picked on and happy when that person is brought down a peg or two. This is just my school experience, but I really don't think that being bright is the problem, more how you deal with it. It is still easier to be good at things than bad.

Thanks, Wilson!

All you bright people with misery stories, I'm also someone to whom academic achievement comes relatively easily, and I also had a hard time at school. But I can see, watching my ds grow up, that children with SEN have a different order of hard time, and for them, unlike for us, that impairment is lifelong and won't be affected by social context. I got bullied, and, in the long term, learnt some useful things about group interactions, friendships, mental health and survival. These are things my ds, for all his brilliance in science, cannot learn, ever. My bright dd can (although I hope she doesn't have to).

Lovingthecoast, I'd address the behaviour, and consider her intelligence, if at all, separately. Neither brightness nor ASD give anyone a free pass for 'terrible and dangerous behaviour.'

Posters who are mocked for 'having bright kids' are mocked if their posts are a load of inflated, irritating, ridiculous twatiness.

Likewise kids who are taught to act arrogantly or twattily will (sadly) be sidelined or mocked.

Both my dc are super bright (yeah I know I know, but they are so there!) but neither of them would ever say that or act in a superior way.

Weeeeell.. I don't think I was showy - or not on purpose. I thought the point of school was to do my best and answer questions etc. and it took me a while to learn not everyone agreed. Plus I had a "posh" accent in a regional area which didn't help.

The other thing is if academic success leads to social isolation then you are going to fall behind socially - it's a vicious circle. I had friends, but they were the other nerds, oddballs and rejects. To this day I don't know what being in the "in" crowd involves, or how to behave to be "popular" (not that I'm really bothered, just making the point)

I had lots of friends, it was the adults who were the problem. They went out of their way to help the ones who were struggling, but were positively delighted when any of the children who were considered bright made a mistake. It didn't matter if they were the quiet, shy type who wouldn't ever put their hand up to answer a question, or the annoying kind that sat right at the front and jumped in with the answer before the teacher had even finished speaking.

Blanche, I completely understand why you say that and can see that your |DS's problems are complex and lifelong unlike (I hope) my DD1s. But that doesn't help hopw isolated I felt and how nobody was interested in helping me even when her behaviour was so bad it put her at risk. Why couldn't a HV have helped, surely that's their job?

Her behaviour is still very challenging both to us and to school but not to the extent it was a few years ago. I just felt sneered at asking for help here and in RL.

Thanks, but I didn't know how to address the behaviour, that was the problem. I had taught infants both in mainstream and in an early intervention unit and still couldn't cope with my own DD. NCT friends stopped mixing with us as DD1's behaviour was so bad. I didn't know what to do so sought help but was just told it was all down to her intelligence and to be grateful.

As I said, Ive had 4kids and my fair share of tantrums and bad behaviour and have dealt with them as you do but absolutely nothing worked/works with DD1. And nobody seemed able or willing to help.

DD3 is academically bright, but also has ASD. She has a very high IQ,but struggles with daily living.

Top Maths group,top at science subjects, but has to have her PE kit packed for her cos she would forget it.

Having 2 older girls, I have noticed it is cool to be bright the higher up the school you go.

lovingthecoast I had similar problems with my daughter. I was crying out for help and was constantly told it was down to my bad parenting by HV, Drs and child psychologists. I moved to Sweden when she was 14 and within a few months teachers were asking me if she had ever been assessed for autism. I didn't think she was autistic but one of them said it often isn't what people think and that it is very different in girls. She gave me a book on Asperger's which I read open mouthed. The author had obviously met my daughter! So I asked for her to be assessed and she was diagnosed at 15.

In my experience in primary school at least, as a quite bright child myself, was that I did get "left to it" alot. To be brutally honest as a result I often felt ignored and got bored, while the others seemed to be getting all the help. For example reading - all the other kids got to read once a week with the teacher, i got left for so long I was "reading" the same jonny yellow hat book for weeks. As a result bored and a bit destructive as happens. Rather than work with it and give me advanced work, what did the school do.. I was sent out of class all the time to run arround and get people to go for jabs/help with the reception nativity/sports day etc etc because the emphasis was on the dyslexic kids. I'm a 31 august baby too so all this while being supposidly the least advanced so I can see where the OP is coming from.

Obviously I hope it has changed in the last 20 years but given how SN awareness has excelled I can still see that kids like myself could still slip through in the same way alot of SN kids used to so, I do think she still has a point. Not trying to be mean or anything but it does happen.

OP, I think it is more an MN thing than a real life thing (though you experienced otherwise).

on MN:

• you cannot mention your children are in any way smarter or better than average. You will get lots of support though if you have SEN problems (I had anyway).
• you or your partner earn more than average, then you cannot have problems. And if you do, "boohoo poor you try living on 40 a week" bladibla. And that would be KIND comment! (saw a thread like that yesterday)
• you are seen as a "bad person" if you send your children to private school or drive a 4x4 for whatever reason.

Those are just some MN mob rules.

Other than that, MN is great.

As a parent of a Dd who has been in the gin and tonic club, through Primary and Secondary school, I don't think we have yet encountered a negative attitude to her intelligence. Then again I don't make a big deal about it, I refused at Primary level to engage in any competitive parenting, never mentioned it to any other parents and just carried on as normal.

I think there are more opportunities now, available to children in our education system than in the past. You sound as though you had very unprofessional teachers unfortunately.

There are some posters who stealth boast about their offspring to a ridiculous degree, I personally find it amusing but I can see how it could annoy others.

What does bug me is playing the SN trump card!
I have a SN Dd, I don't find it offensive to read about other people's children who are different to mine. My own 3 are very different to each other. I enjoy reading various boards and I don't need shielding from the fact someone has a G and T child that might have a problem, life is full of problems in various forms.

I struggled at school. I read fast, somewhere around 800 words a minute. I took a book out the school library in primary school and the teacher wouldn't believe I'd read it and called me a liar
It still happens now, people question whether I have "actually" read things and feel they have to ask me what the book is about to prove I've read it, or ask me how I read that fast
I don't know, I've read like this since being 2, and it's just something I can do!!

As a parent of a Dd who has been in the gin and tonic club, through Primary and Secondary school, I don't think we have yet encountered a negative attitude to her intelligence. Then again I don't make a big deal about it, I refused at Primary level to engage in any competitive parenting, never mentioned it to any other parents and just carried on as normal

Good post and good attitude.

I think the fact you don't make a big deal about it is why you haven't come across any negativity. It's the boasting that sometimes usually comes with it that irritates people me

runner - but we start off at school by teaching children to tell the teacher when they finish, and to be pleased when they get the answer. I think it is very cruel to then decide this is the wrong thing for the child to do. It's a mixed message.

I know some people do show off and I'm not condoning that. A quiet word saying 'yes, I know you like to finish first but you are rushing and doing it badly/the other children may feel bad they've not finished yet so be a bit quiet' is fine. But it is really unkind IMO to teach children that tthey will be rewarded for good work, then to change your mind and expect them to hide the fact they've done well.

I think it is very common though.

And you've got to rremember some very bright people with SN don't have the social skills to accept that when they have finished, they should hide it or cover up teh fact they have done well. Academic and social skills don't always go together.

YANBU

And people get shit from teachers regardless of wether they are bright or not, lots of teachers are vile ( lots aren't thank God, but sometimes looking back you wonder why some teachers were anywhere children at all!)

I don't think we have a culture of mocking intellegence, either on mn or in the wider world.

It is the boastful, competitive wankery that gets on everyones tits.

bright - yes, my brother was like that.

When he first went to school he read silently and the teacher told him he was a liar and a cheat for saying he could read. He didn't know she wanted him to sound the words out.

I think again and again you find people who assume if a child is academically able (maybe only in one area, maybe only in comparison to their other skills), but not so able in other areas, that is when they have a truly hard time. It can be impossible to explain why you weren't being rude or deliberately bad, you just didn't understand the wider social context of what you did.

Kladkkaka, thank you. I'm fairly sure she isn't on the autistic spectrum for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I have taught both in an asd early intervention unit and taught 4 children with AS at secondary level, one of whom was a girl. Secondly, she seems to have no social or communication difficulties at all. Non-verbal stuff was all there very early on such as pointing and shared/joint attention. She was talking in sentences at around 13mths and not in a strange or structured way that I have seen in autistic children but in a 'look at that duck!' way and 'The duck is yellow' sort of stuff.

It must have been a great relief for you to finally get that diagnosis. I have worked alongside parents whose AS child was not diagnosed until 9 or 10 and that is frustrating enough for them.

Thank you Valium.