to think that, in general, people in the UK have an appalling attitude towards academically bright children?

[AKMD]

I realise that that's a sweeping generalisation but it irks me. I am academically bright and had a dreadful time at school, not really from the other children, but from the teachers and friends' parents, who were quite sneery and mocked me infront of the whole class/friends if I ever did get anything wrong. It always felt that they were waiting for me to trip up and that they resented me just because I was good all-rounder (terrible at art though!). That was only 7 years ago. Since then, I've seen it happen time and again when people openly jeer at others who are clever, especially girls and women, and it's seen as completely acceptable. Just a few weeks ago on here, I was really shocked when a mother posted in Children's Books about her 18mo DD liking books and asked for age-appropriate suggestions, to be met with sarcasm about introducing her to Joyce and applying to Mensa. I've seen one regular MNer who clearly has bright children be sneered at when she said that the gap between her DDs' intellectual and emotional maturity caused them social problems: "Oh, poor you, it must be sooo hard to have clever children ."

AIBU to think that this attitude is disgusting and that the obstacles placed in the way of bright children are one of the reasons why we as a country are increasingly going to struggle to compete in a global market?

ItsJust G&T children are statemented as SEN and are entitled to the help they need (and I am saying that as a Mum to 'average' achieving children)

Possibly because when people talk about their academically bright children it comes across as boasting. I can think of one person I know who has a child who is on the G and T register at school, and bloody hell everyone gets to hear about it

It isn't a competition, but it is the height of insensitivity (I am not saying don't post!!) to be posting on a board about the woes of having 'gifted' children - if you did a cursory look at the topics, then perhaps THIS would have been the place to post and then perhaps the posts would be more sympathetic.

HTH !!

I have a SN child (though mild) and I don't mind people posting about kids who are genuinely gifted and talented - I can see why children like that may be challenging to parent and belive their parents are entitled to the same amount of support and encouragement as everyone else.

What I (and many other posters) really can't abide are 'oooooh precious ickle genius matched shapes aged 18 months, school just doesn't understand my PFB's enormous talents and makes him sit next to a child who smells and is stupid, and general stealth boasting - well, to be fair, it's not that I can't stand that, but I will call it.

As to the rest of your post, meh to a certain extent - peers will rib peers for anything so I don't think bright kids get it any worse than others - and that's speaking as a (formerly) bright kid...

I posted on a thread frustrated that nobody had ever offered me help with DD1. She is considered gifted but she is also very sociable. Our problem was that her behaviour was appalling. She was very, very naughty. From the HV to the GP, nobody was interested in helping and all I was ever told was that it was down to her intelligence and to 'be grateful' she didn't have SN (that was what 2 separate HVs told me)

On here I got a similar reaction but also other posters saying stuff like, 'well I wouldn't call it gifted to be reading Roald Dahl on entry to Reception just quite bright.' Oh how Id love for her to be 'just quite bright.'

I have four kids so it's not as if I'm not used to some naughty behaviour or don't know the difference between a bright kid and an exceptionally bright one.

Both my experience both on here and in RL has been disappointing at a time when I really needed help.

Im sorry you had a hard time at school.

I don't think it matters if someone is bright or not - I think it matters that children put the effort in and work hard. So yes, I do think there is a tall poppy syndrome about hard working children regardless of attainment.

That said, I know children who are academically bright (whatever that means in primary school) but obnoxious and emotionally still rather immature - other children don't like them so much because of this. Of course it works the other way round too!

YY, same- I was very bright at school, but always teased for it. Frequently bored in class, in English f.e. (not my native language) I was given a book, read it in 2 days, finished the tasks, and then had nothing to do for the rest of the term. I was talented for languages and science in particular, but it was impossible for me to do all 3 sciences and 2 foreign languages in A levels, just because nobody else did.
DD2 is the same, for a while was allowed to work with the year group above in primary, but that was stopped, and then she became disruptive ++, as bored. Had to change schools twice (18 mon private, which I'm still paying off, grr), before getting into an appropriately supportive school. She is now in one of the countries top Grammar Schools, and for the first time in her life fits in, and it is good for her to experience not automatically being the best, and having to work to keep up academically, she was getting lazy and cocky
Thankfully she is also very sporty and mouthy, so was never bullied much

I think the thing is AKMD even your OP makes me twitch a bit, it's not jealously just amusement. To describe yourself as bright is setting yourself up for a bit of teasing imo.

The point someone made about boasting about their acheivements - why is it ok to post on facebook saying didn't DS do well, he was man of the match and got a hat trick, but I wouldn't have dreamt of posting - well done DS1, you got 100% in your 11 plus! You can't mention their academic acheivements without getting accused of boasting/showing off

When I was at school it was cool to be clever. But you know, I think if you truly are really clever you have an advantage anyway.

I know plenty of people who do 3monkeys

It is possible for a child to have SN and be academically gifted, though. I know a fair few people with Aspergers who did very well at school and, sadly, were also badly bullied by teachers and other children. There's a girl I know who wasn't diagnosed until she was at university and her time at school was by her account absolute hell.

I do wonder though, OP, if your horrible experiences as a child make you more worried than you need be? There is a certain tendency for people to see all references to academic achivement as 'boasting' whether they are or not. But often it is simply a knee jerk response to people feeling you're putting them down or setting yourself up as better. And I do agree this has to do with the rather nasty attitude the UK education system encourages, that on the one hand being academically able is the ideal (it's not), and on the other hand that being too different from other children is bad (it's not).

Oh, just wanted to add, if children are ahead accademically, they are often expected to be ahead emotionally/ developmentally- and of course, they are not, so they are often labelled emotionally immature, when all tehy are is normal in that respect. They are also often labelled disruptive or obnoxious, when what they really are is frustrated and bored.

But why was it assumed on here that I was boasting about DD1 when I was actually looking for help? Why was I dismissed by the HVs because she wasn't at the other end of the spectrum. She still had problems which were impacting on all our lives.

AKMD re China that's very true. One of the things I like about living in HK is that the culture of academic achievement has also rubbed off on the western kids.

Yep my daughter gets this all the time. She has AS so is socially and organisationally inept but academically she is on an entirely different planet to her peers. Her intellect was measured as part of her assessment and she is in the top 2% of the country (and that's doing the tests in a foreign language she had only been learning for 2 years).

Some of her teachers adore her and relish rising to the challenge of engaging her in their subjects. Others hate her and go out of their way to sabotage her progress. The kids mostly ignore her existence unless they need help with their assignments.

She would trade her intelligence in in an instance to have had a single party invitation. Ever. :(

I have two dc with SEN, one because she is, according to school 'g and t' (yes, reading Roald Dahl in reception - school's call, not mine; as long as she's happy and good I don't think it matters how well someone reads at 4), the other because he is on the autistic spectrum. They are both, in my view, very bright, albeit in very different ways. But the one with ASD, for certain sure, has a far, far harder time at school, and probably always will. You can't compare intellectual strength with severely impaired social skills - bright kids, properly supported, can and do learn to manage social relationships. Bright kids with autism, however supported, will at best learn to pretend.

So a) SEN and intelligence aren't mutually exclusive

and b) brightness is always an advantage because, by its nature, you are better equipped to manage difficult situations, including being bullied. That's why kids with diagnosed SEN need and deserve more support than those who are only g and t.

Yes I had teachers who sneered at me, and at other bright kids, especially girls. One humiliated me in front of the class, when I was 12, for reading an exam instruction wrong - he obviously got SO much pleasure out of me making a mistake, even though even WITH the mistake my exam score was still an A so it wasn't that major. (You can see it's stayed with me! ) He also allowed a girl who habitually bullied me, and her cronies, to stand up at the front and sing a song about me and how pathetic I was because I was shit at sport, while he sat and smiled at her. Two "naughty" boys who were sat behind me leaned forward and reassured me and offered to beat her up for me - they were my only saviours that day!

I also got it bad from the parents of one of my exes - god they were vile to me because I was "intellectual" and "talked like a book" - despite the fact that they were, ahem, a lawyer and an education professional, and their son my bf had a phd! (which I don't)

However I don't think it's everyone - these people were repellent, but one-offs. Most people are not like this and I had some fantastic teachers who encouraged me so much.

I think you're right and wrong, Brits like anyone riding high to fail, we like to feel better about ourselves by making everyone as shit as us. We're also shit with difference, any difference.

There's a child in Ds's class who is so bright academically but is a PITA, I like him being worng because he constantly has to shout about everything he knows....everything. I am not in the least bit interested in how many books he's read or what fucking Henry V liked playing as a boy,.

(I hasten to add I said "no" to the beating up!)

I do hate this idea that a bright person can't admit to it for fear of being mocked. That's a bit crap for an adult but it's horrible for a child IMO.

Any child, however academically or otherwise able, deserves to be praised for their work.

I remember a teacher deciding I needed to learn my lesson as I'd been 'spoilt' by the teacher in my class the year before. We were taught to go to the teacher's desk when we finished each piece of work and to get the next worksheet. I went up to her and she sneered 'go and sit down and wait, I'm busy'. She did it every time for weeks, and I spent a lot of time sitting at my desk, doing nothing, with no idea what I had done wrong and why I wasn't being given anything else to do. Turns out she did not like me to finish so early and thought the previous teacher had 'spoilt' me by keeping me busy with worksheets to do. But she could have just told me to work more slowly/to go and read a book! I had no idea why it was bad or showing off so it was a really nasty thing to do. And needless to say, because it wasn't explained, I simply learned for a long time that it was best not to admit that I had finished my work. That was a great life lesson.

Blanche that's a very insightful post

kladd - that's rotten.

I do think it gets better - school is such a bad place to be a bit different, isn't it?

Would it make a difference to bring back Grammar schools?

Blanche, I wasn't suggesting that in the long run, her intelligence wouldn't advantage her especially as she doesn't have any social issues.

But, from about 18mths (she's now 6yrs) her behaviour has been terrible and dangerous. Deliberately running in front of cars, opening car doors when we are travelling, jumping out of windows, smacking people she thinks are stupid, screaming because she can't get her own way with everything, having complete meltdowns because she can't do long division in Reception and her attitude is that she needs to know everything now and do everything now even if not capable yet.

We've had 3 broken bones and numerous stiches and trips to A&E. She is exhausting and seems to need very little sleep. When she was 3 or 4 I was desperate for help esp as I had newborn DD2 but nobody was interested.